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Post by Mrs H on Aug 27, 2008 9:33:45 GMT -1
I'm intrigued that a lot of Hilary Clinton supporters have now said they're going to back the Republican John McCain instead of Democrat Obama. Does this go to prove that American politics isn't about party politics but about the individual or dare I say there are some that just don't want to see a black man as president?
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Post by Travis on Aug 27, 2008 11:00:57 GMT -1
I'm intrigued that a lot of Hilary Clinton supporters have now said they're going to back the Republican John McCain instead of Democrat Obama. Does this go to prove that American politics isn't about party politics but about the individual or dare I say there are some that just don't want to see a black man as president? I sense there is an element of both. Hasn't politics always been heavily influence by PR, propaganda and the cult of personality after all? Wasn't Tony Blair elected to the Labour leadership partly in recognition of the fact that the party needed a fresher face at the front after a succession of staid individuals had failed to make them electable? Vis-a-vis the decision of the Tories to have David Cameron fronting the party; a self-modelled 21st century man of the people who offers far more charisma than substance. Going far further back, most dictators are credited as being compelling speakers and men of incredible charisma. Race is also a big issue though. I was reading a poll in the weekend papers and the results showed that while Obama struggled relatively to attract votes from white Americans, especially amongst the older age groups, that stood in contrast to the 92% share of the 'black vote' he enjoyed. There's a summary here of the findings.... www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/24/barackobama.democrats20081
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Post by URRZZZ!!! on Aug 27, 2008 16:02:25 GMT -1
I also heard somewhere (I think at the pub last night so judge how reliable this is as you will) that U.S. voters did 2 surveys recently on who they would vote for. In the party survey, the Democrats had a 12 point lead over the Republicans. However Obama only had a 2 point lead over McCain. Race is a far bigger issue the other side of the pond than it is over here, and I think it will make a big difference.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Aug 27, 2008 16:58:44 GMT -1
The thing is, a lot of Hilary's policies were a lot closer to McCain's than Obama's anyway, so on that basis, at least some of the vote-switchers have reason to - though I'm under no illusion that race will play a part in a fair number of people's thoughts.
I think the trouble is that a lot of American people - and people over here, for that matter - forget that they're voting for the party, not the person. Bush wasn't/isn't really in charge; Rumsfeld, Cheney and co were. Bush alone can't force bills through congress, or decide on the government spending, or order the troops home. Likewise over here; the Prime Minister has a lot of symbolic importance, but they don't pull anywhere near all the strings. People often don't consider that when they vote, though, and as such the figurehead becomes the main focal point for many.
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Post by Mrs H on Aug 28, 2008 8:50:43 GMT -1
Which is why British politics is getting to state it is. When Blair was elected it was generally accepted that people wanted a younger fresher face to vote for. Now we have Blair clones in each party. Cameron is a shiny faced ad man, Nick Clegg just looks right but when they need a quote they'll wheel Vince Cable out because he at least has some sense. Then when Brown is ousted Labour are going to get Milliband, Blair's creepy little right hand man.
All fluff and no substance and that what the majority want. Someone to smile at them and tell them everything is ok.
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 8:53:21 GMT -1
that'd be nice.....
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Post by Mrs H on Aug 28, 2008 8:54:44 GMT -1
everythings going to be ok Mortycakes. x
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gt
Non League Player (someone crap, like Boston)
Posts: 51
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Post by gt on Aug 28, 2008 8:56:06 GMT -1
Not for Sheffield United it isn't...
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 8:56:41 GMT -1
everythings going to be ok Mortycakes. x where do i vote?
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 8:57:12 GMT -1
Not for Sheffield United it isn't...
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Post by Mrs H on Aug 28, 2008 8:58:11 GMT -1
Oh and I had to laugh last night. I was watching Pulp Fiction when some people knocked on my door.
"Hello I'm from the local conservative party, can I get your signature on the petition to stop the local post office from closing".
"Sorry I'm not really interested, I don't use it anyway"
"Ok. Can I ask you who you normally vote for?"
"I vote Labour"
"Ok thank you for your time"
All the while the shiny faced Tory lady had to listen to the sodomy scene and the quote "bring out the gimp". I don't think the Tories will be bothering me again ;D
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 9:00:41 GMT -1
i dunno, sounds like a tory thing to me, you'll get bus loads of tory mps trying to "canvass" for your vote....
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Post by Mrs H on Aug 28, 2008 9:01:57 GMT -1
Actually you're right. Do you think Portillo will make the journey up?
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 9:03:42 GMT -1
is that who you're hoping for?
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Post by Mrs H on Aug 28, 2008 9:05:12 GMT -1
God no. And Boris can stay away too!
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 9:12:53 GMT -1
;D
incidentally, yes, i do think America politics in terms of the presidency is about the individual - its like some surreal popularity contest.
.... also i'd like to point out how annoying it is that Obama is often refered to as a "Afro-American". He is not! He is a Kenyan-American. You'd not refer to a man with an English father and an American mother as a Euro-American, so why would you call Obama an Afro-American! Its derogitory to Africa and Kenya....
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Post by addicted2venos on Aug 28, 2008 9:55:13 GMT -1
Oh and I had to laugh last night. I was watching Pulp Fiction when some people knocked on my door. "Hello I'm from the local conservative party, can I get your signature on the petition to stop the local post office from closing". "Sorry I'm not really interested, I don't use it anyway" "Ok. Can I ask you who you normally vote for?" "I vote Labour" "Ok thank you for your time" All the while the shiny faced Tory lady had to listen to the sodomy scene and the quote "bring out the gimp". I don't think the Tories will be bothering me again ;D I had our local Labour party representative ring me up on Monday night, to ask me what I thought about John Heppell and whether he could count on my support. I said I thought he was shiftless and lazy in parliament, with his voting record being his only outstanding contribution. I also mentioned that he seemed always to vote along party lines. Which meant I saw him as someone who was just filling space in parliament and as such I couldn't ever vote for him. I'm really pissed off with the fact that as all the parties have now shifted to fight for the centre of politics, that we I am now left without a credible left-wing party to vote for. I think I may just wipe my arse with my ballot paper at the next election!! We now mirror the US political party system so closely it untrue. As it's difficult to get a fag paper between the stated views of the main parties here. In the US they have one right-wing party and one slightly left of right-wing party. While they and the sound bites associated with them sound different. The appearance of any choice is illusory, as big business has it's hooks so far into US politics (both sides) that I'm surprised that congress members aren't sponsered!!
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 9:57:56 GMT -1
I'm really pissed off with the fact that as all the parties have now shifted to fight for the centre of politics, that we I am now left without a credible left-wing party to vote for. I think I may just wipe my arse with my ballot paper at the next election!! You two have both forfeited your right to complain when things go wrong ;D me and jen have so much in common .... i've no one to vote for!! there is no left wing in british politics!!
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Post by addicted2venos on Aug 28, 2008 10:00:42 GMT -1
I'm really pissed off with the fact that as all the parties have now shifted to fight for the centre of politics, that we I am now left without a credible left-wing party to vote for. I think I may just wipe my arse with my ballot paper at the next election!! me and jen have so much in common .... i've no one to vote for!! there is no left wing in british politics!! I don't have time to read everything you post!! Anyway I've been saying the same/similar things on here for about a year and a half!!
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Aug 28, 2008 10:02:13 GMT -1
why not? ..... i've been saying it for about a year and a half and a day.....
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