It's one rule for them...

[Neko Bazu]

Headline story on BBC News site at the mo; apparently there's a load of religious groups protesting against a bill outlawing discrimination on the grounds of sexuality, saying it infringes on their rights.

Please note that 'their rights' include the right to not be discriminated against because of their religion.

Am I the only one who's almost apathetic about this sort of thing now? It's almost expected, in my eyes (Doesn't mean I don't disagree with them, but I just can't get worked up about it any more - go on, someone be controversial, I've got 10 minutes til a meeting and need waking up!)

[Remember Jesus]

Whats wrong with gays and Lesbians?

The church ought to get its own house in order

[Neko Bazu]

rjfc said:

Whats wrong with gays and Lesbians?

The church ought to get its own house in order

I know This time, it's christians, jews and muslims protesting, and they've all got the same protection under the law as what's being proposed here.

It's not even like it's a pro-gay act - it goes both ways, so now gay bars can't ban straight people from entering, for instance.

They cite the example, 'A christian web designer might find himself asked to make a site promoting gay rights, and be unable to refuse.' Now, if it were a racist refusing to make a site for black rights, there'd be outrage - what's the difference between the two?

[Remember Jesus]

Of the three faiths you mention Neko. All will have gays and lesbians in their midst.

Hypocrites the lot of 'em.

[Shippers]

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

[Mrs H]

roshipman said:

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

I think you should be flogged.

[Shippers]

If I were someone else I would be saying "is that an offer"


Thank God I'm not someone else!

Well I'm going to come down on your ass like a hawk and peck you furiously until you surrender and offer to make me a cup of coffee you smelly pirate hooker!

[Mrs H]

You're going to peck my ass?

[CHOPPER READ]

You are a lawyer,you are hired by a client who is accused of crimes against children. You know they are guilty but you still have to fight their case for them......
The list could go on.

roshipman said:

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

[Mrs H]

markbrandonread said:

You are a lawyer,you are hired by a client who is accused of crimes against children. You know they are guilty but you still have to fight their case for them......
The list could go on.

roshipman said:

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

Lawyers are a different breed though. They want to win whatever side they're on. No moral fruit and fibre!

[Shippers]

markbrandonread said:

You are a lawyer,you are hired by a client who is accused of crimes against children. You know they are guilty but you still have to fight their case for them......
The list could go on.

roshipman said:

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

True - but the very existence of a defence lawyer is to stand up for someone who may have committed the crime they're being tried for. It's the definition of the job to be in that predicament.

My examples are slightly different in that they would probably be one offs and they are more ideological than that of a lawyer, who chose a proffession with such dilemma.

[Shippers]

mrsh said:

You're going to peck my ass?

in essence yes.

[CHOPPER READ]

Vanilla essence? Like tommy sauce on broccolli.

roshipman said:

mrsh said:

You're going to peck my ass?

in essence yes.

[Mrs H]

markbrandonread said:

Vanilla essence? Like tommy sauce on broccolli.

roshipman said:

in essence yes.

[Shippers]

mrsh said:

markbrandonread said:

Vanilla essence? Like tommy sauce on broccolli.

your guess is as good as mine!

[CHOPPER READ]

I dunno,lost me self there.

mrsh said:

markbrandonread said:

Vanilla essence? Like tommy sauce on broccolli.

[HURLOCK]

mrsh said:

markbrandonread said:

You are a lawyer,you are hired by a client who is accused of crimes against children. You know they are guilty but you still have to fight their case for them......
The list could go on.

Lawyers are a different breed though. They want to win whatever side they're on. No moral fruit and fibre!

Not always the case they have a code of practice, basically what their client tells them is the truth. If their client tells them that they are going to lie etc., then they can not represent them.

However the one defending the murderer when on jury service was an arrogant arse, who knew he was not going to get a result - but there to earn his fees!

[Neko Bazu]

roshipman said:

Just a question - two gay men want to get a civil partnership. Fair enough. they want a service in a church. Christianity forbids homosexual sex (not relationships), and the vicar is in no doubt that the union will be consumated. Should the church be forced to host the 'wedding' despite it conflicting directly with it's views?

Another - You work for a company that produces leaflets and other promotional material. A neo Nazi group want you to print propaganda leaflets for their racist campaigns. You don't want to but the law states that you can't refuse them business based on their political beliefs. What do you do? Is that fair?

I won't promote or offer my services to causes, religions, political movements or anything else that I don't believe in. It would be dishonest and wrong. Should I be forced to by the government?

A white racist policeman refuses to work on a case where a black person is the victim. We all know what would happen there.

It should be one rule for everyone, which is what RJ and I are annoyed about here - they're being protected, so why shouldn't another social group? I'd rather no-one could be discriminated against than going back to the days when signs saying 'no blacks' or 'no catholics' were hung outside pubs.

[Neko Bazu]

Well, the motion was defeated anyway - and could it be true?! I agree with something two politicians are saying!

Conservative Lord Tebbit said: "Black is about being. Sexual orientation is about being.

"And we would not wish to discriminate against people for being black nor on grounds of their sexual orientation.

"The concerns which are being expressed this evening are primarily about sodomy rather than about sexual orientation - that is doing, not being."

But Labour's Lord Smith said: "I am somewhat puzzled by the arguments that have been advanced.

"It seems to me, in my simplistic way, that what they (the opponents of the regulations) are arguing for is quite simply the right to discriminate and the right to harass.

"And those arguments are being made in the name of Christianity."

This may well be a first for me!

[Remember Jesus]

Two politicians actually spouting some sense