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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 9:39:31 GMT -1
There's life in the old Hurls yet! You don't sound like me, I would never draw a distinction between "the educated" and "the working classes" as if they were mutually exclusive! Oh but you do, and thats why you wouldn't recomend private education, because you think it's exclusive. Yet this is where our leaders go, be they red or blue. So Jules the destinction is there weather you like it or not fella. Or are you elling me, we're all equal? Of course the world is not equal and is unlikely to ever be so. However those in power have a resonsibility to ensure everyone is looked after.
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:55:02 GMT -1
No, we're not the capital of Bedfordshire, because we weren't a big town when the county was named. Big wow; we've since outgrown the county ;D They have no say in our affairs whatsoever, and we've been proven to be better off for it. No decent University? No, only one of the top five to attract overseas students in the country, I believe; and we're University of Bedfordshire now, which encompasses Luton and De Montfort, so hardly crap! (Not that it was crap before the merger ) <SNIP bizarre rant of praise for small town in Bedfordshire, with an airport!> So what does that obscure former mining town have to offer? "Big Wow" indeed... however I fail to see how an obscure town in Bedfordshire compares with the Capital of Wales! errr... extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.phpCardiff 28, "Bedfordshire" 84, if it takes you a while to find them! Okay, so you have some industry. Nothing significant - though that goes for most of the UK really Former mining town? You have no clue do you?! Cardiff isn't in a mining area, nor is it in "the valleys!" Good Lord... I know geography teaching isn't up to much these days, but really! I'm not going to bother with a long list, I have a job to do (posting on other threads lol!) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff will tell you all you need to know about one of the world's finest cities!
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Post by shinny on Aug 16, 2007 9:55:56 GMT -1
houses... I didn't have that...
we had forms though T, U, D and Q (I was in T)
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:57:37 GMT -1
Oh but you do, and thats why you wouldn't recomend private education, because you think it's exclusive. Yet this is where our leaders go, be they red or blue. So Jules the destinction is there weather you like it or not fella. Or are you elling me, we're all equal? Of course the world is not equal and is unlikely to ever be so. However those in power have a resonsibility to ensure everyone is looked after. Well in some respects they are, however some choose not accept the hand of help. Also would this make for an interesting world, working classes are integral to the make up of any country
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:59:08 GMT -1
No, we're not the capital of Bedfordshire, because we weren't a big town when the county was named. Big wow; we've since outgrown the county ;D They have no say in our affairs whatsoever, and we've been proven to be better off for it. No decent University? No, only one of the top five to attract overseas students in the country, I believe; and we're University of Bedfordshire now, which encompasses Luton and De Montfort, so hardly crap! (Not that it was crap before the merger ) <SNIP bizarre rant of praise for small town in Bedfordshire, with an airport!> So what does that obscure former mining town have to offer? "Big Wow" indeed... however I fail to see how an obscure town in Bedfordshire compares with the Capital of Wales! errr... extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.phpCardiff 28, "Bedfordshire" 84, if it takes you a while to find them! Okay, so you have some industry. Nothing significant - though that goes for most of the UK really Former mining town? You have no clue do you?! Cardiff isn't in a mining area, nor is it in "the valleys!" Good Lord... I know geography teaching isn't up to much these days, but really! I'm not going to bother with a long list, I have a job to do (posting on other threads lol!) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff will tell you all you need to know about one of the world's finest cities! Jules these statements do not smack of equality, saying someone yealds from a shite place is bound to get anyones back up - no
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 9:59:58 GMT -1
No, we're not the capital of Bedfordshire, because we weren't a big town when the county was named. Big wow; we've since outgrown the county ;D They have no say in our affairs whatsoever, and we've been proven to be better off for it. No decent University? No, only one of the top five to attract overseas students in the country, I believe; and we're University of Bedfordshire now, which encompasses Luton and De Montfort, so hardly crap! (Not that it was crap before the merger ) <SNIP bizarre rant of praise for small town in Bedfordshire, with an airport!> So what does that obscure former mining town have to offer? "Big Wow" indeed... however I fail to see how an obscure town in Bedfordshire compares with the Capital of Wales! errr... extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.phpCardiff 28, "Bedfordshire" 84, if it takes you a while to find them! Okay, so you have some industry. Nothing significant - though that goes for most of the UK really Former mining town? You have no clue do you?! Cardiff isn't in a mining area, nor is it in "the valleys!" Good Lord... I know geography teaching isn't up to much these days, but really! I'm not going to bother with a long list, I have a job to do (posting on other threads lol!) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff will tell you all you need to know about one of the world's finest cities! Reading Uni 25th. Seems to have slipped recently!
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 10:01:05 GMT -1
houses... I didn't have that... we had forms though T, U, D and Q (I was in T) Notherners? Tut tut!
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 10:07:05 GMT -1
I'm tired of this. I can't really understand your perspective Hurls, and moreover I don't want to. Private Education IS exclusive, it excludes those who can't afford it and those who didn't have the resources in terms of supportive parents, decent primary schooling etcetera to be able to pass entry exams. It has historically produced our political leaders of whatever hue, but so what? That's totally irrelevant! If anything it reinforces the point that private education gives an unfair advantage. My point meanwhile is that it is perfectly possible to be educated and working class - though for much of history that hasn't happened because of the barriers put in place by the ruling classes! And I'm sorry, I'm no fan of Marx but once again I am just flabbergasted at the extent of your false consciousness, and don't give me that "I'm a fifteenth generation aristocrat" bollocks again!
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 10:09:27 GMT -1
Jules these statements do not smack of equality, saying someone yealds from a shite place is bound to get anyones back up - no 1) This isn't your fight! 2) It's a completely different argument, nothing to do with equality, it's about pride in one's home area. 3) As they say in the schoolyard "he started it" ;D
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 10:25:41 GMT -1
Again I have to agree with Julian. There is nothing that distinguishes Luton as being a special town.
Neko you mention industry............well welcome to every small, middle and large town in Britain, even the world.
Bedfordshire Uni? Not really that high in the Uni league tables now is it. It attracts overseas students as all the uni's do and maybe why Beds comes in the top 5 is due to it's lower standards for entry especially during clearance. Each student is worth many £££££!
Crime rates fluctuate and are misleading due to how they are documented! TBH you can interpret the figures to suit any standpoint. Many crimes also go unreported!
It is just a town with no real redeaming qualities.......that doesn't mean it isn't a nice place to live.
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 10:30:27 GMT -1
I'm tired of this. I can't really understand your perspective Hurls, and moreover I don't want to. Private Education IS exclusive, it excludes those who can't afford it and those who didn't have the resources in terms of supportive parents, decent primary schooling etcetera to be able to pass entry exams. It has historically produced our political leaders of whatever hue, but so what? That's totally irrelevant! If anything it reinforces the point that private education gives an unfair advantage. My point meanwhile is that it is perfectly possible to be educated and working class - though for much of history that hasn't happened because of the barriers put in place by the ruling classes! And I'm sorry, I'm no fan of Marx but once again I am just flabbergasted at the extent of your false consciousness, and don't give me that "I'm a fifteenth generation aristocrat" bollocks again! 1. The special ones can get scholarships, so it's not exclusive. where is the unfair advantage, grammar school if you make the choice you can learn. Simply as 2. Have I not said that all along! 3. I'm sorry Jules but if you're going to take this moral high ground with me. What have you actually done to change things, besides join the labour party. And I don't see what my parentage has got to do with anything. Still I don't want to argue with you so I'll just beg to differ and avoid the subject with you as it always slips in
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 10:31:37 GMT -1
Jules these statements do not smack of equality, saying someone yealds from a shite place is bound to get anyones back up - no 1) This isn't your fight! 2) It's a completely different argument, nothing to do with equality, it's about pride in one's home area. 3) As they say in the schoolyard "he started it" ;D 1 2 but you're not from Cardiff
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 10:43:01 GMT -1
1. The special ones can get scholarships, so it's not exclusive. where is the unfair advantage, grammar school if you make the choice you can learn. Simply as 2. Have I not said that all along! 3. I'm sorry Jules but if you're going to take this moral high ground with me. What have you actually done to change things, besides join the labour party. And I don't see what my parentage has got to do with anything. Still I don't want to argue with you so I'll just beg to differ and avoid the subject with you as it always slips in There aren't many scholarships and these tend to be "won" by those whose parents don't need the fiscal support, as they get coached. Meanwhile those truly trapped in poverty and with low expectations never pass the 11-plus as they have no family support, low life chances etc - this is why programmes such as Sure Start exist! I'm not sure you have, or you've denied that I think so. It is important to break down barriers to achievement not raise them higher! It's not about the moral high ground, but yes I do have a problem with individualistic politics as I do find them selfish. Sorry! In answer to your question, I do what I can - which is not much alone, but since to coin a phrase Unity is Strength I do try to be part of campaigning for various causes. Less than I did as a student, as now I have to sit here 7 hours a day! As regards your parentage, I'm saying you're not a posh twat, you're normal, and if that offends you I am sorry but also surprised. I just never have understood conservatism except in that as an entrepreneurial type you are seeking to preserve what you have achieved, I'm more used to meeting Tories who think like they do as they inherited their views from their father along with a little cottage in the Cotswolds... I don't have a lot of respect for them, I do respect you but I wish you wouldn't stand on the same platform as them. I dunno I'm rambling now. Going to get lunch, I don't enjoy arguing either but sometimes it's necessary
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 10:44:17 GMT -1
2 but you're not from Cardiff But my family is, and it's where my heart is at. I'd probably defend certain other places I've lived too mind.
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Post by Lollipop on Aug 16, 2007 11:03:26 GMT -1
Um...back to the inital post. It is actually possible for the board to be split into 'Houses'. As you were.
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 11:20:46 GMT -1
1. The special ones can get scholarships, so it's not exclusive. where is the unfair advantage, grammar school if you make the choice you can learn. Simply as 2. Have I not said that all along! 3. I'm sorry Jules but if you're going to take this moral high ground with me. What have you actually done to change things, besides join the labour party. And I don't see what my parentage has got to do with anything. Still I don't want to argue with you so I'll just beg to differ and avoid the subject with you as it always slips in There aren't many scholarships and these tend to be "won" by those whose parents don't need the fiscal support, as they get coached. Meanwhile those truly trapped in poverty and with low expectations never pass the 11-plus as they have no family support, low life chances etc - this is why programmes such as Sure Start exist! I'm not sure you have, or you've denied that I think so. It is important to break down barriers to achievement not raise them higher! It's not about the moral high ground, but yes I do have a problem with individualistic politics as I do find them selfish. Sorry! In answer to your question, I do what I can - which is not much alone, but since to coin a phrase Unity is Strength I do try to be part of campaigning for various causes. Less than I did as a student, as now I have to sit here 7 hours a day! As regards your parentage, I'm saying you're not a posh twat, you're normal, and if that offends you I am sorry but also surprised. I just never have understood conservatism except in that as an entrepreneurial type you are seeking to preserve what you have achieved, I'm more used to meeting Tories who think like they do as they inherited their views from their father along with a little cottage in the Cotswolds... I don't have a lot of respect for them, I do respect you but I wish you wouldn't stand on the same platform as them. I dunno I'm rambling now. Going to get lunch, I don't enjoy arguing either but sometimes it's necessary Hope you enjoyed your lunch, I have explained why I like the conservative way and in my eyes it's fair. If you want to see true socialist at work go to France my friend, and then ask middle of the road people if they think paying high taxes to support under achievers is fair. Really in you heart do you think thats fair, that you go to work earn a fair whack so that some free loader can be kept in board and lodging or even worst still a family of them. Thats off topic but in my eyes it's what your defending.
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 11:32:00 GMT -1
Hope you enjoyed your lunch, I have explained why I like the conservative way and in my eyes it's fair. If you want to see true socialist at work go to France my friend, and then ask middle of the road people if they think paying high taxes to support under achievers is fair. Really in you heart do you think thats fair, that you go to work earn a fair whack so that some free loader can be kept in board and lodging or even worst still a family of them. Thats off topic but in my eyes it's what your defending. Yes thanks, and you? You think if people work hard they can achieve anything - the American Dream in the little old UK. It's not true there and it's not true here! It might be if there was a level playing field but first you have to overturn the effects of centuries of unjust privilege for some and unjust disadvantage for others. What about France? I think it has a lot going for it, though there are things I disagree with, most countries do! I defend the hand-up not the hand-out, support not charity. Yes you have to retain an incentive for people to achieve, but you also need to give support to those who need it - carrot as well as stick, if you like. I have NEVER said I agreed with a safety-net which traps people in (quote unquote) a dependency culture.
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 11:36:48 GMT -1
We have a dependancy culture mate, thats what the labour government has created and a nanny state to boot. Pandering to the minorities and forgeting the real working classes.
If the conservatives came up with a good manifesto, then you know they'd win by a landslide.
And as with France people are now opting for the far right, FFS BNP politics never even had a platform 20 years ago!
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 11:46:03 GMT -1
We have a dependancy culture mate, thats what the labour government has created and a nanny state to boot. Pandering to the minorities and forgeting the real working classes. If the conservatives came up with a good manifesto, then you know they'd win by a landslide. And as with France people are now opting for the far right, FFS BNP politics never even had a platform 20 years ago! The whole point of the New Deal was a carrot and stick approach, where previously people sat on the dole now they are forced to look for work or re-train. So I don't see how New "Labour" can be blamed there. As for the Nanny State, from what you say I would have thought you'd support that - people need to be told what to do, if they didn't they could be left to it! As for pandering to minorities, I fail to see what evidence of that you could put forward at a Government level. The whole reason the Tories can't do anything is because Labour are so moderate, there's nothing the Tories can suggest to make themselves look different and better! As I understand it the last time there was significant fascist feeling in the UK was in the 1970s, but there's always a minority who go down that road. I regret that, but what can one do, the politics of hate always attract somebody. Actually the best way to stop it is by removing the reason for the hatred - all the bullshit media suggesting that "coloured people get treated like royalty"
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 11:58:56 GMT -1
Jesus Jules wake up, labour are moderate why do you like that - it makes fo weak country. We have been led by a liar and a cheat for the past ten years in many ways far worse than the torries and he finished some of jobs started by Thatcher (Unions) He departs when we are about to go into melt down, is that the actions of someone true to his beliefs. I can't argue anymore as you are wrong, I have met you and know you have aspirations and want to do well - this is why I can't grasp your defence of something that says - 'it's ok we'll support you' I will only talk to you about women, football, clothes and cars from now on. Well at least until tomorrow
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