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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 8:34:07 GMT -1
Well Hurls, at the risk of pressing the same old point, because not everything I believe is about my personal gain! Jules I'm sorry I don't buy that, you're effectively saying it's OK to fail, and that my friend is imoral and sinful. If you know there is something available to you and within your means then you should take advantage of it.
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 8:34:46 GMT -1
How dare you sir I am wonderful! You proceeded to Oxbridge and hence confirmed your Dandy status! I went on to integrate into the real world and study with riff raff! Oh, I'm sure you are, but your outrage only serves to further prove your poshness! No normal person objects to the words "cad" or "bounder" ;D Aww, sorry Cav, were you not good enough to study PPE/SPS You went to Imperial, it's not exactly Neasden Technical College!
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 8:42:09 GMT -1
Jules I'm sorry I don't buy that, you're effectively saying it's OK to fail, and that my friend is imoral and sinful. If you know there is something available to you and within your means then you should take advantage of it. I'm not saying it's okay to fail! I'm saying that I would support the broadening of opportunities! And what's with the Pastor Hurlock bit? If you want immorality and sin, I'm not sure you're whiter than white! Father Jules sayeth: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" bub! ;D Yes Hurls, taking advantage of people is very much the Christian message! Seriously though, by all means make a personal decision to buy your kids an advantage in life, I'm sure most parents who can, do! But realise that when you bring the market into education, you're screwing over those who through no fault of their own cannot afford to compete! And THAT my friend is morally bankrupt!
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 8:48:29 GMT -1
Bullshit, I have been schooled in both sectors and my secondary school was rough as a bears arse! Basically the children who want to learn put their heads down and get on with it, the ones that don't fuck around or if like me you got involved at both ends and towed the line when yu had to. (if caught out flash the cheeky grin, always worked and still does ) Education is there and is very good, its the one place where you have the choice you take it or you don't. Has nothing to do with class, and I'll prove you wrong on this dear boy every time!
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 8:56:11 GMT -1
Bullshit, I have been schooled in both sectors and my secondary school was rough as a bears arse! Basically the children who want to learn put their heads down and get on with it, the ones that don't fuck around or if like me you got involved at both ends and towed the line when yu had to. (if caught out flash the cheeky grin, always worked and still does ) Education is there and is very good, its the one place where you have the choice you take it or you don't. Has nothing to do with class, and I'll prove you wrong on this dear boy every time! Sorry are you saying that you have just as good a chance going to a rough comprehensive as going to a private school?
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:01:24 GMT -1
Bullshit, I have been schooled in both sectors and my secondary school was rough as a bears arse! Basically the children who want to learn put their heads down and get on with it, the ones that don't fuck around or if like me you got involved at both ends and towed the line when yu had to. (if caught out flash the cheeky grin, always worked and still does ) Education is there and is very good, its the one place where you have the choice you take it or you don't. Has nothing to do with class, and I'll prove you wrong on this dear boy every time! Sorry are you saying that you have just as good a chance going to a rough comprehensive as going to a private school? I'm saying the choice is yours mate, naturally it has a lot to do with your parents giving a fuck. Both my parents we're teaching my father would come home frustrated as fuck because some of the kids didn't give a shit and just ignored him. Whereas at least 2/3 rd cared. That wa smy personal expirience as well, so I think you need to make the choice, so yes in some respect you have the same breaks and if you really shine you'll get a scholarship
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:05:01 GMT -1
I'm confused now, what exactly are you saying Hurls? I thought you were generally in favour of private education? Some state schools are shite, true! Not the ones round where I grew up, so in fact I reckon I'd have done just as well at them as I did where I went... And sure I can imagine your cheeky grin getting you into and out of trouble!
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:07:10 GMT -1
I'm confused now, what exactly are you saying Hurls? I thought you were generally in favour of private education? Some state schools are shite, true! Not the ones round where I grew up, so in fact I reckon I'd have done just as well at them as I did where I went... And sure I can imagine your cheeky grin getting you into and out of trouble! Have no rel biased, but it's still down to the individual
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 9:12:07 GMT -1
Sorry are you saying that you have just as good a chance going to a rough comprehensive as going to a private school? I'm saying the choice is yours mate, naturally it has a lot to do with your parents giving a fuck. Both my parents we're teaching my father would come home frustrated as fuck because some of the kids didn't give a shit and just ignored him. Whereas at least 2/3 rd cared. That wa smy personal expirience as well, so I think you need to make the choice, so yes in some respect you have the same breaks and if you really shine you'll get a scholarship In a very small minority maybe. Lets set the scene. You go to a tough inner city London school. There are 30+ different languages spoken by the pupils and over half can't speak very good English. Many of the kids are in gangs and only go to school in order to hang out with their mates. If you study hard you're bullied and the teachers are as scared of the bullies as you are. Weapons are probably carried by many pupils so as damage limitation to yourself from physcological and physical harm, you neglect your studies. That is the reality for thousands of bright kids who choose self preservation over risking an A grade!
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:12:09 GMT -1
Have no rel biased, but it's still down to the individual So you're just arguing for the sake of it, and have no real opinion!
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:14:05 GMT -1
Have no rel biased, but it's still down to the individual So you're just arguing for the sake of it, and have no real opinion! cheeky fucker No, double edged sword - tis like everything if you can afford it take it. Otherwise you compramise a little and find a good state school
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:17:43 GMT -1
So you're just arguing for the sake of it, and have no real opinion! cheeky fucker No, double edged sword - tis like everything if you can afford it take it. Otherwise you compramise a little and find a good state school Takes one to know one, fella! ;D Uh-huh... well let's all move to Kent and send our kids to Grammar schools! ;D
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:17:51 GMT -1
I'm saying the choice is yours mate, naturally it has a lot to do with your parents giving a fuck. Both my parents we're teaching my father would come home frustrated as fuck because some of the kids didn't give a shit and just ignored him. Whereas at least 2/3 rd cared. That wa smy personal expirience as well, so I think you need to make the choice, so yes in some respect you have the same breaks and if you really shine you'll get a scholarship In a very small minority maybe. Lets set the scene. You go to a tough inner city London school. There are 30+ different languages spoken by the pupils and over half can't speak very good English. Many of the kids are in gangs and only go to school in order to hang out with their mates. If you study hard you're bullied and the teachers are as scared of the bullies as you are. Weapons are probably carried by many pupils so as damage limitation to yourself from physcological and physical harm, you neglect your studies. That is the reality for thousands of bright kids who choose self preservation over risking an A grade! You're probably right, I went to school a long time ago. Still the reality means as a nation we will remain governed by the educated and the working classes will not have a voice. Fuck I sound like Jules
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:19:05 GMT -1
Lets set the scene. You go to a tough inner city London school. There are 30+ different languages spoken by the pupils and over half can't speak very good English. Many of the kids are in gangs and only go to school in order to hang out with their mates. If you study hard you're bullied and the teachers are as scared of the bullies as you are. Weapons are probably carried by many pupils so as damage limitation to yourself from physcological and physical harm, you neglect your studies. That is the reality for thousands of bright kids who choose self preservation over risking an A grade! Given that advanced level of understanding, why are you so right-wing? Or is that all part of your facade? Frustrating Matthew, very frustrating...
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 9:19:27 GMT -1
So you're just arguing for the sake of it, and have no real opinion! cheeky fucker No, double edged sword - tis like everything if you can afford it take it. Otherwise you compramise a little and find a good state school I think you are wrong it's not a case of if you can afford it you'd choose private. There is alot to said about comprehensives if they are run well. I actually believe they promote independent thought to a higher degree and don't just produce students who are effectively exam machines. Most private school pupils are average but are guided well. Of there are exceptional pupils all along the educational spectrum and that is what grammer and private schools try to cream off!
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Post by Neko Bazu on Aug 16, 2007 9:23:11 GMT -1
Crappy, maybe, but not obscure or insignificant ;D Luton is UTTERLY insignificant! Sorry! It's not even the capital of Bedfordshire FFS! No University (no decent one anyway), Not Much Industry left, all it has is an Airport! Don't take it personally though *watches Jules' power of reasoned argument plummet* Dear oh dear oh dear ;D No, we're not the capital of Bedfordshire, because we weren't a big town when the county was named. Big wow; we've since outgrown the county ;D They have no say in our affairs whatsoever, and we've been proven to be better off for it. No decent University? No, only one of the top five to attract overseas students in the country, I believe; and we're University of Bedfordshire now, which encompasses Luton and De Montfort, so hardly crap! (Not that it was crap before the merger ) Not much industry? The factory I work in has a turnover of £30m annually on its own, we still have a decent-sized hat industry, Vauxhall may have left but we still have IBC, Delphi and MTL to name but three other major companies, and there's a huge development project underway which has already attracted companies offering 5,000 jobs and has provision for up to another 10,000. No industry indeed! ;D (Never mind the airport and rail network's contribution too, the breweries, the fruit distribution agencies, the tourism - yes, we house a lot of tourists in our hotels - the thriving nightlife...) I would also like to throw into the hat our hospital, which is one of the few in the country financially well in the black, the colleges (Barnfield Technology Centre - which I attended - was the first in the country to achieve full marks in every department in their CVE inspection), the falling crime rates and the strong sense of unity throughout the town, the fact that we are home to one of the few decent MPs, as well as the fact that our chavs are surprisingly civil compared to those I've met in other places, be it through education/manners or having taken enough beatings to learn. So what does that obscure former mining town have to offer?
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:25:50 GMT -1
cheeky fucker No, double edged sword - tis like everything if you can afford it take it. Otherwise you compramise a little and find a good state school I think you are wrong it's not a case of if you can afford it you'd choose private. There is alot to said about comprehensives if they are run well. I actually believe they promote independent thought to a higher degree and don't just produce students who are effectively exam machines. Most private school pupils are average but are guided well. Of there are exceptional pupils all along the educational spectrum and that is what grammer and private schools try to cream off! This is my fathers argument, and hence why I only did A'Levels at a private school. My Mother would have sent me to the french lycee but he wouldn't have it! You concur what I said to Jules - private school kinds get the guidance etc., I wouldn't go so far as to say they're exam machines.
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Post by C@V on Aug 16, 2007 9:29:51 GMT -1
Lets set the scene. You go to a tough inner city London school. There are 30+ different languages spoken by the pupils and over half can't speak very good English. Many of the kids are in gangs and only go to school in order to hang out with their mates. If you study hard you're bullied and the teachers are as scared of the bullies as you are. Weapons are probably carried by many pupils so as damage limitation to yourself from physcological and physical harm, you neglect your studies. That is the reality for thousands of bright kids who choose self preservation over risking an A grade! Given that advanced level of understanding, why are you so right-wing? Or is that all part of your facade? Frustrating Matthew, very frustrating... Well what can I say? I'm a complex guy! ;D
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Post by jh1980 on Aug 16, 2007 9:31:53 GMT -1
You're probably right, I went to school a long time ago. Still the reality means as a nation we will remain governed by the educated and the working classes will not have a voice. Fuck I sound like Jules There's life in the old Hurls yet! You don't sound like me, I would never draw a distinction between "the educated" and "the working classes" as if they were mutually exclusive!
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Post by HURLOCK on Aug 16, 2007 9:35:49 GMT -1
You're probably right, I went to school a long time ago. Still the reality means as a nation we will remain governed by the educated and the working classes will not have a voice. Fuck I sound like Jules There's life in the old Hurls yet! You don't sound like me, I would never draw a distinction between "the educated" and "the working classes" as if they were mutually exclusive! Oh but you do, and thats why you wouldn't recomend private education, because you think it's exclusive. Yet this is where our leaders go, be they red or blue. So Jules the destinction is there weather you like it or not fella. Or are you elling me, we're all equal?
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