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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 7:40:51 GMT -1
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7038992.stmIt's a thought that religious philosophers have been putting forward for God knows how long, but well done them for stepping forward and saying it  It'll be interesting to see how Mr Benedict responds to it - and whether it all turns out to be lip service or whether they do something to act on it. I wonder, though, how many of these scholars are from countries associated with extremism (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc), and how many are already based in the west. My guess is those based in extremist countries - assuming they're of any authority whatsoever there - are the only ones who'll actually have any impact in that country.
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 7:48:14 GMT -1
Funnily enough, I was in a kebab shop the other week (not the point of the story!  ) Some guy called Amir may have been trying to convert me, he was chattering away about how Islam is given such a terrible image in the media, and how it's all about love and beauty and all that. He offered to get me a copy of the Qu'ran in English... that sort of stuff. I was a bit drunk, so I didn't make too much fuss... though I didn't go back for the book. Just wanted to tell that story really, not sure if there was a point...   |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 7:53:49 GMT -1
I think he does have a fair point though - Islam is no more violent (by the book) than Christianity, yet look at the perception the two have in the media. Christianity's got a few nutters, but as a rule of thumb they're pretty decent, peaceful folk. Muslims, on the other hand, hand out several jihads a day and want to bomb us all to shit for no apparent reason If we were to compare their track records, they'd probably stand up in a pretty similar light actually - I often wonder if muslims see those evangelical Christian TV preachers that go on about raining fire in the same way as we see their preachers screaming about the will of Allah (i.e. possibly insane and kinda disturbing!) Shouldn't be forcing his religion down your throat like that though; I've always held that if God wants you, he'll come to you his way. |
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 7:59:38 GMT -1
I wouldn't deny at all he had a fair point. I was fairly interested in the idea of an English-text Koran. Though I suspect if I read it I'd have the same reaction I have to reading a Bible. Ye-es although liberalism and tolerance aside we ended our aggressive pursuit of "smiting the infidel" centuries ago... unfortunately, and I don't want to sound unreasonable, but there's a nasty streak of medievalism in the militant Islamist groups. I suspect waiting for God(ot) is a pointless endeavour though fella... |
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 8:03:55 GMT -1
Whilst I think their faith is about the sabctity of life, I hate the way they are oppressive towards women and homosexuals. Also the way some preachers take the scriptures on face value and preach them to the gulible is really adhorent.
Is Jules wearing off on me ;D
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 8:05:29 GMT -1
I'd say that sounded perfectly reasonable, and I agree entirely. It's still a qualified statement though ( militant Islamist groups), and the same can be said of the more militant Christian groups too - KKK, anti-abortion militants and so on. It's just that they're smiting someone other than the infedel now! See also not-necessarily-Christian groups such as animal rights campaigners, IRA, paedophile lynch mobs (paediatricians everywhere, beware! :  and so forth - the militant approach to putting your view across is what I'd say was medieval, and it's not only Islam that's guilty of it! Oh, for everyone to be Buddhist... |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 8:07:32 GMT -1
Whilst I think their faith is about the sabctity of life, I hate the way they are oppressive towards women and homosexuals. Also the way some preachers take the scriptures on face value and preach them to the gulible is really adhorent. Is Jules wearing off on me ;D Interesting there Hurls; I was always under the impression you weren't so keen on gay people yourself - or is yours more of a 'live and let live regardless' attitude?  Not wanting to sound funny, just genuinely curious! I think so - watch out; you'll be voting labour next! |
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 8:13:27 GMT -1
I'd say that sounded perfectly reasonable, and I agree entirely. It's still a qualified statement though ( militant Islamist groups), and the same can be said of the more militant Christian groups too - KKK, anti-abortion militants and so on. It's just that they're smiting someone other than the infedel now! See also not-necessarily-Christian groups such as animal rights campaigners, IRA, paedophile lynch mobs (paediatricians everywhere, beware! : and so forth - the militant approach to putting your view across is what I'd say was medieval, and it's not only Islam that's guilty of it! Oh, for everyone to be Buddhist... I don't know much about the KKK but I didn't have the impression that their group had an overt link with Christianity? Thank fuck though anti-abortionists haven't yet started blowing things up have they (too "pro-life" for that...  ) Again though with the exception of the IRA (and shame it's only ever them that are mentioned) those groups don't use a policy of hardcore terrorism nor do they twist religious works to justify their ends. As for the former Irish situation, that was never really about religion - but the parallel is I suppose closer than most in the way it was used as a pretext. Ha, see you changed the typo! PS: Shouldn't this thread be on the Politics board? |
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 8:13:36 GMT -1
Whilst I think their faith is about the sabctity of life, I hate the way they are oppressive towards women and homosexuals. Also the way some preachers take the scriptures on face value and preach them to the gulible is really adhorent. Is Jules wearing off on me ;D Interesting there Hurls; I was always under the impression you weren't so keen on gay people yourself - or is yours more of a 'live and let live regardless' attitude? Not wanting to sound funny, just genuinely curious! I think so - watch out; you'll be voting labour next! I may say the odd tongue in cheek comment, but I've no real issues with gays. So long as they're consenting adults etc., However I have encountered anti hetrosexual gays and lesbians, which to be honest I found funny. Really odd it was like going in the home fans pub and equaly hostile. But yes live and let live, I only know one friend who is gay and he fought it for ages and only came out a few years back. Err no Labour for me, especially after Mr Browns latest childish exploits |
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 8:17:02 GMT -1
However I have encountered anti hetrosexual gays and lesbians, which to be honest I found funny. Really odd it was like going in the home fans pub and equaly hostile. LOL I have one gay friend who occasionally mockingly refers to us Heteros as "Breeders" ;D ;D |
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Post by Dr LuKas on Oct 11, 2007 8:24:14 GMT -1
Militant Christian groups include the KKK what the fuck Neko?
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 8:34:09 GMT -1
However I have encountered anti hetrosexual gays and lesbians, which to be honest I found funny. Really odd it was like going in the home fans pub and equaly hostile. LOL I have one gay friend who occasionally mockingly refers to us Heteros as "Breeders" ;D ;D No this was not jokey stuff, real what do you think your doing here minge lover stuff! American Warewolf stylee |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 8:42:33 GMT -1
Militant Christian groups include the KKK what the fuck Neko? I've always been under the impression that they proclaimed themselves to be Christian - I may simply have been mis-informed way back when and not heard otherwise since. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected! Edit: Yes, I was right - they're "an American protestant white supremacy group." |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 11, 2007 8:52:35 GMT -1
I don't know much about the KKK but I didn't have the impression that their group had an overt link with Christianity? Thank fuck though anti-abortionists haven't yet started blowing things up have they (too "pro-life" for that... ) No, they have - see Eric Robert Randolph (committed a series of bombings across the southern United States in the 1990s, killing three people and injuring at least 150 others) and Clayton Waagner as famous case studies. After a little research, I can also offer the Army Of God, the Freedomites and the National Liberation Front of Tripura as militant groups, the latter being genuinely terrorist. I was merely pointing out the medieval mentality wasn't limited to religious groups |
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 8:57:15 GMT -1
Mr Mandela was a terrorist, he has not been hounded like the KKK. Infact he seems to have been rewarded for his actions
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 8:58:52 GMT -1
No, they have - see Eric Robert Randolph (committed a series of bombings across the southern United States in the 1990s, killing three people and injuring at least 150 others) and Clayton Waagner as famous case studies. After a little research, I can also offer the Army Of God, the Freedomites and the National Liberation Front of Tripura as militant groups, the latter being genuinely terrorist. I was merely pointing out the medieval mentality wasn't limited to religious groups Oh... I stand corrected!  Still, those nutters are mostly confined to the USA... excuse my insularity but that feels suitably far away! Nice if they'd all fuck off and jump off a cliff nonetheless...! Ah, yeah they sound suitably crazy... Fair enough. |
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Post by jh1980 on Oct 11, 2007 8:59:43 GMT -1
Mr Mandela was a terrorist, he has not been hounded like the KKK. Infact he seems to have been rewarded for his actions That's what Anita used to say... |
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 9:13:39 GMT -1
Mr Mandela was a terrorist, he has not been hounded like the KKK. Infact he seems to have been rewarded for his actions That's what Anita used to say... Still a sad fact though! |
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Post by Mrs H on Oct 11, 2007 9:13:44 GMT -1
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The world is never going to agree on this level of discourse. The Muslims are being extremely clever by making this move by forcing the Catholic church to voice an opinion on the subject.
Maybe the Muslims and the Christians should be dealing with their own demons before they try combating each others!
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Post by HURLOCK on Oct 11, 2007 9:17:57 GMT -1
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. didn't know it was another men only club |
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It'll be interesting to see how Mr Benedict responds to it - and whether it all turns out to be lip service or whether they do something to act on it.
)
and so forth - the militant approach to putting your view across is what I'd say was medieval, and it's not only Islam that's guilty of it!
Not wanting to sound funny, just genuinely curious!
)
Forever without exception. x