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Post by Neko Bazu on Mar 6, 2008 8:25:57 GMT -1
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Post by Mrs H on Mar 6, 2008 8:59:06 GMT -1
There are some valid points in there about how working class and middle class people view this country. Immigration tends to affect the working classes more those because they're essentially vieing for the same things, cheaper housing, lower paid less skilled jobs. You can see how they would see it as a negative part of the country. It's nice to see the fear of crime is rumbling on and being blamed elsewhere! I do think that the white British need to start standing up for themselves more instead of being easily manipulated by the media.
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:01:56 GMT -1
It'll probably degenerate!
I was mildly concerned that the trailers for the programme, showing a white man's face gradually getting "blacked in" with foriegn scripts by a marker pen, was not particularly sensitive or helpful.
People should forget about the "colour" issue - it's fairly darn obvious that the "class" issue is what really matters. And working class people do indeed need more representation and a stronger voice regardless of their individual colour or creed, gender, sexuality etc! That was what the Labour Party was created to work for... and what the Labour Party today tragically fails to offer (at the Governmental level at least)
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Post by Mrs H on Mar 6, 2008 9:06:45 GMT -1
It'll probably degenerate! I was mildly concerned that the trailers for the programme, showing a white man's face gradually getting "blacked in" with foriegn scripts by a marker pen, was not particularly sensitive or helpful. People should forget about the "colour" issue - it's fairly darn obvious that the "class" issue is what really matters. And working class people do indeed need more representation and a stronger voice regardless of their individual colour or creed, gender, sexuality etc! That was what the Labour Party was created to work for... and what the Labour Party today tragically fails to offer (at the Governmental level at least) Well the Labour Party knew it needed the middle class floating vote to get into power. You'd have to say they have a fair point that there are very few parties that represent the needs of the working class. Unfortunately at grass roots level the BNP are the ones that graft locally and look at the issues that affect them directly. Wouldn't be suprised if at the next elections there will be more BNP candidates.
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Post by HURLOCK on Mar 6, 2008 9:07:15 GMT -1
Well I fell there are some very valid ponts here, that the Labour party have ignored for fear of being called racists, personally the English are soft and just take things until they become unbearable. If these issues are not addressed then there will be a repeat of the Brixton riots etc., really is as simple as that.
Wake up and smell the coffee Brown
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:14:59 GMT -1
Well the Labour Party knew it needed the middle class floating vote to get into power. You'd have to say they have a fair point that there are very few parties that represent the needs of the working class. Unfortunately at grass roots level the BNP are the ones that graft locally and look at the issues that affect them directly. Wouldn't be suprised if at the next elections there will be more BNP candidates. This is true. Arguably the LP has never been as good at representing its traditional interest group as the Cons have at representing and defending its interest group! Well it's not just the BNP there are other groups but they tend to be small and fragmented. Nor I...
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Post by Mrs H on Mar 6, 2008 9:15:21 GMT -1
Well I fell there are some very valid ponts here, that the Labour party have ignored for fear of being called racists, personally the English are soft and just take things until they become unbearable. If these issues are not addressed then there will be a repeat of the Brixton riots etc., really is as simple as that. Wake up and smell the coffee Brown You're expecting Brown to change the culture of this country? And you're convinced Cameron or Clegg would be any different? The problem is the 3 main parties cater for the whinging middle classes.
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Post by HURLOCK on Mar 6, 2008 9:17:28 GMT -1
BNP are only there because thats what the people want, because the party they voted in has failed to deliver and frankly in some respects panders to immigrant groups in order to gain their vote.
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:26:12 GMT -1
You're expecting Brown to change the culture of this country? And you're convinced Cameron or Clegg would be any different? The problem is the 3 main parties cater for the whinging middle classes. There are about 30 Labour Members of Parliament who would like to make significant changes to this country. As far as I'm concerned nearly every other MP on whichever side wants to tinker with the status quo - "rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic" as they say! Indeed, and nobody is speaking for the whinging working classes! ;D
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Post by Arnold on Mar 6, 2008 9:27:26 GMT -1
As a white English single male I am without doubt at the bottom of the pecking order for any form of assistance I may require.
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:29:45 GMT -1
BNP are only there because thats what the people want, because the party they voted in has failed to deliver and frankly in some respects panders to immigrant groups in order to gain their vote. "The People" don't actively want the BNP, however some can be induced to protest vote. With low turnout as well it makes it easier for fascist parties to creep in the edges. The most bizarre thing is when you get BME people involved with the BNP - it's almost likely shouting "Yes! Repatriate me, please!"
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:30:30 GMT -1
As a white English single male I am without doubt at the bottom of the pecking order for any form of assistance I may require. Luckily for you you're a pretty classy guy fella! ;D
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Post by Neko Bazu on Mar 6, 2008 9:34:26 GMT -1
I agree with a lot of what's been said so far - the working class as a whole certainly doesn't appear to have a voice any more (even certain unions seem to represent the working class less ), but I also think it's fair to say that the white working class members in particular can feel hard-done by as far as political representation goes. I must admit that I'd have expected the outcome of 'Is immigration a good thing?' to have been more skewed than that, though - like, at least 60% against. Considering all the bile the national rags produce, as well as the issues in some working class/run-down areas that're so quickly highlighted, 42% being in favour of it is almost enouraging! I'm definitely not surprised by the amount of people who perceive the quality of life to have decreased over the last decade either though.
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Post by Arnold on Mar 6, 2008 9:34:48 GMT -1
As a white English single male I am without doubt at the bottom of the pecking order for any form of assistance I may require. Luckily for you you're a pretty classy guy fella! ;D My charm has so far failed to persuade my local housing association to flog me a new build in Chelsea Harbour though
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Post by HURLOCK on Mar 6, 2008 9:36:23 GMT -1
"The People" don't actively want the BNP, however some can be induced to protest vote. With low turnout as well it makes it easier for fascist parties to creep in the edges. The most bizarre thing is when you get BME people involved with the BNP - it's almost likely shouting "Yes! Repatriate me, please!" You see Jules, your reaction is typical of the Labour Party. We don't like it, so ignore it and it'll go away. You rely on peoples tolerance. Or worst still you have no understanding of what the indigenous people of this country wants, and will demand!
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Post by Neko Bazu on Mar 6, 2008 9:36:53 GMT -1
There are about 30 Labour Members of Parliament who would like to make significant changes to this country. On that note; pleased to see Kelvin Hopkins represented his constituants in the vote last night instead of toeing the party line!
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:46:04 GMT -1
I agree with a lot of what's been said so far - the working class as a whole certainly doesn't appear to have a voice any more (even certain unions seem to represent the working class less ), but I also think it's fair to say that the white working class members in particular can feel hard-done by as far as political representation goes. A significant part of the reason Trade Unions are unable to support and represent their members less vigorously is the anti-Trade Union laws introduced by Thatcher and upheld by Blair. While it may be a good thing that we have fewer strikes, the difficulties now experienced in motivating and recruiting for Union membership are directly linked to the lack of Union power to do anything. Basically there is another imbalance of power, but I'm not sure why the emphasis NOW should be on that - it was ever thus!!! ~ "It's the same the whole world over, It's the poor who gets the blame. It's the rich that gets the pleasure Ain't it all a bleedin' shame?!" ~
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:49:27 GMT -1
You see Jules, your reaction is typical of the Labour Party. We don't like it, so ignore it and it'll go away. You rely on peoples tolerance. Or worst still you have no understanding of what the indigenous people of this country wants, and will demand! I believe people don't want fascism, that they don't hate people for being differently coloured or differently spoken... don't you believe that? At worst the world hasn't changed in the last century, and were fascists elected to "govern" this country I'd end up in some resistance group - or jail - or dead!
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Post by jh1980 on Mar 6, 2008 9:50:58 GMT -1
On that note; pleased to see Kelvin Hopkins represented his constituants in the vote last night instead of toeing the party line! To Kelvin Hopkins!
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Post by HURLOCK on Mar 6, 2008 9:54:50 GMT -1
I believe people don't want fascism, that they don't hate people for being differently coloured or differently spoken... don't you believe that? At worst the world hasn't changed in the last century, and were fascists elected to "govern" this country I'd end up in some resistance group - or jail - or dead! How is stemming the amount of people who come here creating facist dictatorship? Whatever way you look at it the problem needs to be addressed and it's something that has existed for decades. The frightening thing is that our economy relys on illegal workers. Yes the world has evolved, interesting that you'd fight on the other side of the fence, but now. Why can't the labour party be pro-active?
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