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Post by Billy on Feb 8, 2007 10:22:05 GMT -1
I just tried to sign it but they won't let me - says they are too busy - see what you're interfering has done!!!
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Post by Remember Jesus on Feb 8, 2007 10:22:51 GMT -1
No but a lot of tax comes from it and if that starts dwindling it has to come from somewhere else. True... I'd raise Income Tax and sod the consequences. Too unpopular to win elections with, but surely every party will come to see you can't run the systems we have without sufficient taxation. Shit I don't want to bang on about this all day, but if other people will start miserable threads like this... Sufficient taxation? What about efficiently run departments? Now that would be a novelty!
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Post by Dr LuKas on Feb 8, 2007 10:23:22 GMT -1
So JH do you think I should sign the petition or not. I'm still not convinced it's not just some tax dodging propaganda.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 10:28:35 GMT -1
Barnsley council is shit. The governments answer to everything is throw money at it, that will solve it. But they seem to be taxing people for taxing sake. I'm sure they at least are trying to improve - they won't get as much money if they're shit. But that's a problem, a lot of Councils have been improving a lot (mine is an example) but others stood still. Unfortunately it seems to me the Government's answer to everything is pay private consultants huge amounts to analyse the problems, and then spend more money on wasteful PFI schemes to build new stuff... but hey the result is the same! I'm a bit of an angry youngish man...
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Post by Mrs H on Feb 8, 2007 10:29:31 GMT -1
I think cars should run on potato peelings and fly.
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Post by C@V on Feb 8, 2007 10:33:20 GMT -1
I think cars should run on potato peelings and fly. I vote Laura! Now get naked lady and come here!
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 8, 2007 10:34:57 GMT -1
Perhaps they should put freight back on the railways then? ...you are joking, right? Someone seems to have forgotten about our wonderful rail network! (Besides which, you still have to deliver to the stores themselves, add the extra capacity etc...) Personally, I'm in favour of having canals dug/reopened and freight shipped along them. It'd be an expensive venture to begin with, but a national canal network isn't unfeasible - we've managed it with roads, which're more expensive and require much more maintenance. With global warming seemingly inevitable, it also seems to be a sensible way to use all that extra water! Let the public use the roads, and let businesses use the rivers - far greener and cheaper than rail, air or roads, and far more sustainable too. It's what our nation was built on to begin with, and our seafaring capabilities and technology are far improved compared to what we had then!
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 10:39:03 GMT -1
Sufficient taxation? What about efficiently run departments? Now that would be a novelty! Again this is typical of the cynicism which the media breeds. Departments are not on the whole run with huge inefficiency, and when they are people tend to get laid off, same as any other job. You need to realise that running the state costs a shitload of money, though of course it doesn't help when the government wastes money on its pet schemes (though all governments do that)
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Post by Dr LuKas on Feb 8, 2007 10:40:30 GMT -1
When you think about it, if they don't get the money from this new taxation system, they'll have to try to get it from somewhere else.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 10:40:59 GMT -1
So JH do you think I should sign the petition or not. I'm still not convinced it's not just some tax dodging propaganda. Do what you feel is right... but I think if the petition succeeds in doing anything, it will be yet another victory for a motoring lobby which is ignorant at best, malign at worst. just my view, not trying to stick it down y'all throats...
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Post by addicted2venos on Feb 8, 2007 10:41:44 GMT -1
You know my views on taxation ............ it's just one of those things that none of us likes. Nobody is happy when they look at the stoppages bit of their wage slip, or when the council tax bill arrives, or that we pay inflated prices for imported goods .......... but that's life. Sadly a lot of cash is used inefficiently or lost in bureaucracy, but we continue to make new demands of the state, of the police, and the armed forces and someone has to pay for it. But these services don't work very well I hear you cry, ........... well people like bad news and that's what always comes to the fore and is reported. So for every bit that's crumby there's plenty of other bits that work perfectly well, which no one says anything about (cos it doesn't sell papers!!). You want top line gleaming public services ............. then you'll probably have to pay 50% tax on your earnings, and no one would stomach that!! It's not fair I don't use the services I pay for I hear you say ......... well, I very rarely use the doctor or other NHS services. However if I collapse in the street tomorrow I know that I'll be taken to hospital (unlike the US), and treated and at the end of it I won't get a huge bill!! ........... and I quite like that idea!! ;D Hippy commie!! You agree with me, you just won't admit it...
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 10:43:32 GMT -1
...you are joking, right? Someone seems to have forgotten about our wonderful rail network! (Besides which, you still have to deliver to the stores themselves, add the extra capacity etc...) Personally, I'm in favour of having canals dug/reopened and freight shipped along them. It'd be an expensive venture to begin with, but a national canal network isn't unfeasible - we've managed it with roads, which're more expensive and require much more maintenance. With global warming seemingly inevitable, it also seems to be a sensible way to use all that extra water! Let the public use the roads, and let businesses use the rivers - far greener and cheaper than rail, air or roads, and far more sustainable too. It's what our nation was built on to begin with, and our seafaring capabilities and technology are far improved compared to what we had then! yeah your plan is equally valid. I might even exalt you for it I have ideas about what we should do with the railways, but in order to have the money to do that we'd have to either get a load more taxes in or cut military budgets, moves which again would be unpopular with a lot of people...
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Post by HURLOCK on Feb 8, 2007 10:46:07 GMT -1
I have already signed this petition, congestion charge does not work!
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Post by gw on Feb 8, 2007 10:51:08 GMT -1
Already signed
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 8, 2007 10:52:09 GMT -1
yeah your plan is equally valid. I might even exalt you for it Oh come now, you didn't think one such as me would mouth off without an alternative, did you?
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 10:57:21 GMT -1
Oh come now, you didn't think one such as me would mouth off without an alternative, did you? you're not stupid matey! but how much would it cost to sort out the canal system? and how long would it take? I do like the idea though, I have heard it a few times before but not often...
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Post by Forza's Blind Optimists (CPFC) on Feb 8, 2007 10:59:14 GMT -1
Interesting that this thread has now debated itself to 3 pgs long now and no one has mentioned the "Green" issue which its ment to be about. Just goes to show no one really gives a stuff about carbon emmisions when it comes to shelling out your cash. Me included i might add. Bloody hippies.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 8, 2007 11:03:50 GMT -1
Interesting that this thread has now debated itself to 3 pgs long now and no one has mentioned the "Green" issue which its ment to be about. Just goes to show no one really gives a stuff about carbon emmisions when it comes to shelling out your cash. Me included i might add. Bloody hippies. I try to avoid that angle! Due to the same dislike of hippies. I could make that argument but I can't be arsed, and am going to try and get some lunch without slipping over in the snow!
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 8, 2007 11:08:54 GMT -1
Oh come now, you didn't think one such as me would mouth off without an alternative, did you? you're not stupid matey! but how much would it cost to sort out the canal system? and how long would it take? I do like the idea though, I have heard it a few times before but not often... The actual building of the canals themselves probably wouldn't take that long - how long does it take to dig and line/reinforce a trench, before adding the gates? Done bit by bit (branch out from, say, Manchester, Newcastle, Bristol and London, meeting in the middle in 10-15 years, for instance), it's more than feasible. As for the cost; in truth, I don't think it's a project that could be government-run, because it wouldn't be a public service (on the upside, no tax on the public!). Carefully regulated from the outset (unlike with the rail network), though, it could be an efficiently-run business venture with a healthy profit margin after the start-up costs are recovered - as I said, the maintenance side of things is far cheaper than anything else we have, and as long as the prices are reasonable, businesses will be chomping at the bit to get their goods on there (if nothing else, they can make a big PR exercise about how they're using the greener alternative ). Capital investment would be few and far between after start-up (you could build a ship for such circumstances that'd last 20 years easily; 30+ within reason), and it'd create masses of employment too (the ships need loaders, people to steer them, people would need to operate the gates etc). Makes too much sense for the government to take it up, really
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 8, 2007 11:09:54 GMT -1
Interesting that this thread has now debated itself to 3 pgs long now and no one has mentioned the "Green" issue which its ment to be about. Just goes to show no one really gives a stuff about carbon emmisions when it comes to shelling out your cash. Me included i might add. Bloody hippies. I think it's because we all know the 'green' issue is a load of bollocks - the government don't really care about it either, at least on this front! (Though I should add I did note my canal idea was greener than roads, rail or air )
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