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Post by Mrs H on Oct 20, 2009 13:02:25 GMT -1
I bet Abdul felt a right [c]unt after voting for the BNP only to find it didn't stand for Britain Needs Pakis. You have all the charm of being a BNP supporter Chopper.
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Post by PASTIE on Oct 20, 2009 18:34:38 GMT -1
I'll be watching! Should be a fascinating one. Interesting to see how the BBC is softening them up by running the stories about Spitfires and Churchill now to get them on the back foot. Should be compelling but uncomfortable viewing.
Chopper - whilst the urge to post expletives in reply to your message is strong is there any chance instead that when these utterances occur to you you could just leave it so that the rest of us can enjoy ourselves innocently and pointlessly on here without the discomfort of being associated with your remarks or the irritation of having to read them?
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Post by Alex on Oct 21, 2009 21:25:31 GMT -1
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Post by Golden_Boy™ on Oct 21, 2009 21:42:54 GMT -1
I'll be watching! Should be a fascinating one. Interesting to see how the BBC is softening them up by running the stories about Spitfires and Churchill now to get them on the back foot. Should be compelling but uncomfortable viewing. Chopper - whilst the urge to post expletives in reply to your message is strong is there any chance instead that when these utterances occur to you you could just leave it so that the rest of us can enjoy ourselves innocently and pointlessly on here without the discomfort of being associated with your remarks or the irritation of having to read them?
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Post by Golden_Boy™ on Oct 22, 2009 13:43:50 GMT -1
What are we hoping to see tonight, then? Maybe people could come up with a few suggestions, we can even have a poll if we want to be all democratic about it. Me - I'm hoping to see someone get ejected from the audience for shouting abuse at Griffin, while the rest of the audience protest about the ejection. Then it all kicks off and there's a massive bundle with Griffin and Straw at the bottom. I'd also like to see a member of the panel completely outclass/annihalate Griffin in a political debate, without resorting to petty insults, but instead focussing on debunking BNP policies through intelligent, thought-out logical arguements. Hopefully, Griffin will then lose it and say something like "Deport all the niggers!!" and any credibility his party has - will evaporate in an instant. In reality - it'll probably be petty point scoring and the audience will be the usual thick twats, but we can all hope ;D
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Oct 22, 2009 13:48:12 GMT -1
What are we hoping to see tonight, then? Maybe people could come up with a few suggestions, we can even have a poll if we want to be all democratic about it. Me - I'm hoping to see someone get ejected from the audience for shouting abuse at Griffin, while the rest of the audience protest about the ejection. Then it all kicks off and there's a massive bundle with Griffin and Straw at the bottom. I'd also like to see a member of the panel completely outclass/annihalate Griffin in a political debate, without resorting to petty insults, but instead focussing on debunking BNP policies through intelligent, thought-out logical arguements. Hopefully, Griffin will then lose it and say something like "Deport all the niggers!!" and any credibility his party has - will evaporate in an instant. In reality - it'll probably be petty point scoring and the audience will be the usual thick twats, but we can all hope ;D that'll do.
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Post by Golden_Boy™ on Oct 22, 2009 13:58:03 GMT -1
There has to be at least one nutter though, balance it out a little! ;D
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Post by Golden_Boy™ on Oct 22, 2009 14:13:51 GMT -1
Anyone reading this who's outside of the UK - and wishes to watch - you can download a bit of software called Filmon. Get that application and you can watch BBC, ITV C4 and 5 etc in HD in real time. No need to thank me, I know I'm awesome.
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Post by Rulesaints on Oct 22, 2009 21:53:38 GMT -1
lol.
utter destruction.
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Post by Alex on Oct 22, 2009 21:54:49 GMT -1
Bonnie Greer = Legend. Considering she isn't a politician, I thought she outclassed the lot of them.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 23, 2009 6:36:05 GMT -1
Well, Mr Griffin seemed to enjoy himself
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Post by Golden_Boy™ on Oct 23, 2009 11:00:00 GMT -1
For me, this was slightly spoiled as it was ALL about the BNP, bar one irrelevant question about the death of Stephen Gately it was just accusation after accusation, followed by an attempted answer by Griffin, who was then shouted over after a few seconds by somebody else.
If you want to dissect someones views and opinions because you think they're wrong, you have to let them put them across first, or you cause a farce - which is just what the BBC did last night, but the BBC deserve some credit - for at least giving him the chance to let us know what he stands for an all that.
Getting him on the show was brave and sensible. Letting him speak, and giving him enough of a chance to show the country just how bigotted his views are underneath the slick, soundbite heavy veneer would have been pretty easy, and much more successful than what actually happened.
For those who don't have an interest in politics, they may engage a little more after that, I guess that's one positive to take.
I think the show touched on morality a little too. There is no such thing as absolute morality and i'd suggest it's wrong to imply that there is such a thing. Whilst most rational people would probably agree that racism is abhorrent, the only way that we can meaningfully arrive at this position is through debate. Otherwise a set of dogmatic principles will be rigidly stuck to for all time; in recent centuries, slavery was accepted as self evidently moral. It was only through self reflection and open debate that we progressed to the situation where we are now.
No matter how strongly you believe it, you cannot unilaterally declare that the moral position that you hold now is superior; instead you must constantly prove it through rational debate. Without this, there would be no self-correction of views which are later found to be baseless and harmful! With an issue such as racism it’s likely that any counter position would be dispatched in short order, in which case I don't think there's too much to be worried about. But it is not exempt from the process just because people don't like it.
It is not up to any one person, or indeed any snapshot of society, to declare that anything is "too immoral" to debate. Morality is necessarily a fluid, self correcting, entity, that evolves through constant exposure and debate; not through a global gagging order to suppress ideas that are contrary to the position people happen to hold now.
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Post by Dr LuKas on Oct 23, 2009 14:16:11 GMT -1
I dispair of the general public sometimes, they've been interviewing people on the street and some are saying after watching last nights Question Time they're changing their mind towards supporting the BNP.
Ooo he's on the telly maybe I'll vote for him
Fuck you.
I don't like really stupid people...
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Post by PureOldGold on Oct 23, 2009 15:26:30 GMT -1
Nick Griffin avoided all the major questions during question time, he repeatedly played the mis-quote card every time he was asked about his views on the holocaust etc. The panel and the audience were very hostile towards him throughout which was expected, i worry however he might gain some more support from viewers who are frustrated with the immigration control and housing. He has gone from being a racist thug to a 'politician' who now is avoiding voicing some of his views to be accepted on the political ladder and feeding off other issues which are frustrating the indigenous population. He has no real solutions to real policies which affect this country on a daily basis and the majority of his support were from those were frustrated with the main two political parties.
I believe in freedom of speech and didn't have an issue with him coming on the programme, but the debate really exposed the bnp for what they really are.
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Oct 23, 2009 16:02:29 GMT -1
Nick Griffin avoided all the major questions during question time, he repeatedly played the mis-quote card every time he was asked about his views on the holocaust etc. . like most politicans then...... he's an ugly fucker isn't he.
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Post by El Morto La Hoja! on Oct 26, 2009 23:44:20 GMT -1
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Post by PASTIE on Oct 27, 2009 18:42:21 GMT -1
Brilliant.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 27, 2009 18:54:39 GMT -1
Superb ;D
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Post by PASTIE on Oct 27, 2009 23:39:47 GMT -1
OK, time to post something on here. I think GB's post above is absolutely spot on. I wonder how many other footie fan's forums could boast so intelligent and articulate a post that cuts right to the heart of why the programme was or should have been so important. Well done Liam I don't agree that the programme didn't work, but I do agree that it was disappointing. I know that this is sad, but whilst I recorded it and intended to watch it again, circumstances have just dictated that I have just watched it for the third time! I think that to have somebody like Griffin on it was inevitable that the audience and the rest of the panel would respond as they did. I'm not sure that I would have been less enthusiastic to humiliate him that any of them were. That sounds disparaging but actually I was impressed with all of the rest of the panel. Whilst they may all have had their personal axes to grind and careers to tout they made it quite clear that they were at least all united in their debate in terms of setting out the parameters of decency. It was refreshing to see this, reassuring to see that even people like Jack Straw (who I had previously regarded as something of a sell out) could still talk with genuine unabashed passion about something. Politics has needed this and amid all the mixed reviews of the programme I don't think that the panellists have been given the credit that they deserved. My disappointment, bizarrely, was with Nick Griffin himself. I settled to watch the programme expectantly waiting for an uncomfortable intellectual challenge. I had expected Griffin to be slick, quick witted and subtle, able to dress the policies of his party with the same shroud of decency and common sense that masks their real aims on their websites. I expected guile and, however revolting it may have been to a wet liberal like myself, an ideology presented in terms that would require deeper analysis in order to challenge. As GB says above, your own standpoint can only be enriched by being challenged in open debate; your opinions can evolve when challenged with the rational, honestly held position of another. Equally, I thought that Griffin would have the capability to play the event for what it was - a TV pantomime played out to the satisfaction of the leftist chattering classes there present - but to his own ends. Nobody likes to see bullying or marginalisation as it plays on our sense of decency. Griffin really should have been able to maintain in his mind the millions watching at home and he could have played the wounded puppy; he could have used the occasion to pluck on the heartstrings of potential sympathisers at home who may lock in to his simplistic versions of issues and realities. In the end though, he was unable to do any of this. He lacked guile and subtlety; he failed utterly to retain the necessary perspective of the situation in terms of the viewers at home and whenever he could have played the victim he opened his mouth and utterances so nonsensical emerged that just left me speechless. He looked out of his depth and lacking capability and charisma. I was genuinely disappointed as I was up for the challenge.I thought that Griffin might be competent and threatening. Instead I thought that however dangerous and sinister he may be, he was essentially just pathetic.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Oct 27, 2009 23:49:41 GMT -1
And in today's era of personality-politics, that can only be a good thing!
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