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Jul 14, 2007 17:32:08 GMT -1
Post by gw on Jul 14, 2007 17:32:08 GMT -1
but they're no Wimbledon They should have started right at the bottom of the football ladder
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Jul 16, 2007 8:03:42 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 16, 2007 8:03:42 GMT -1
Well there are two ways of looking at this. You could have left Wimbledon FC alone and watched an ailing club drop through the divisions to extinction. Or, breathe new life into the club with a top stadium and growing fan base. In a world where the game is all about players and money this latter option, I am afraid, is a no brainer. The idea that Wimbledon fans have been disenfranchised is quaint but unrealistic and irreconcilable in todays game. In actual fact Wimbledon AFC is nearer to where Wimbledon should actually be. And, here's something for those clubs pandering to American money to think about. Pittsburgh Ice Hockey team's owner wants then to relocate to......er....Florida!!! So if the present incumbents decided to upsticks to London? ?? Outrage? Probably not Man U would be as successful if not more so in the capital as they are in the North West, why? Because unlike the Wimbledons of this world thaye have a national fan base. Wake up and smell the corfee (as we say in the states)
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Jul 16, 2007 9:55:31 GMT -1
Post by GeoFox on Jul 16, 2007 9:55:31 GMT -1
Exalt for your argument.
But I don't think you should use the American example, because it is precisely the franchise in football that people are against. Football in Britain and Europe is tied to place rather than a brand name. The NFL teams in America have moved all over the place on the basis of making money. LA Raiders to Oakland Raiders, LA Rams to St Louis Rams, Baltimore Colts to Indianapolis Colts, St Louis Cardinals to Arizona Cardinals etc. Its this kind of superficial thing people don't like.
Wimbledon probably would have gone bust but AFC Wimbledon would probably still have been set up. MK did of course already have a football team which people could have followed and helped it progress up the leagues. I just don't see how just the fact that you are a big town means you gain a legitimacy for a high league team in a nice stadium. Blackburn and Wigan might be able to fill their grounds if they moved to Bristol, Peterborough or Nottingham, but of course they're not going to.
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Jul 16, 2007 10:39:30 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 16, 2007 10:39:30 GMT -1
I entirely agree with the sentiment and I think that clubs would think twice about doing this given the reaction MK got.
But football is becoming less and less parochial as access to live games on TV becomes more and more accessible. I can see a future where 'brand' becomes more important than location (at the top end of the game). This may be why our top sides are attracting the inerest of enrtepreneurs from across the pond.
The opportunity to sustain success no longer rides on weekly attendances (Bolton, Reading, Wigan) there is plenty of money to be had even with gates of 20K or less. Such clubs could in theory be moved anywhere and still be financially viable. At the top end Man U Chelsea and Liverpool would probably fill stadia anywhere so, again doesn't really matter where they play.
Horrible prospect but that's what the game has become.
On another matter, you lot have been doing some spending? Automatic promotion do you think?
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Jul 16, 2007 21:38:19 GMT -1
Post by GresleyRam©®™ on Jul 16, 2007 21:38:19 GMT -1
My opinion on MK dons is very clear - they should not exist, they should not be in the football league and i wish then every failure!! I would rather have seen wimbledon go bust, reform and start again than have its guts ripped out and shipped to Milton Keynes! I do however, wish AFC wimbledon the best of luck!
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gt
Non League Player (someone crap, like Boston)
Posts: 51
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Jul 17, 2007 6:20:44 GMT -1
Post by gt on Jul 17, 2007 6:20:44 GMT -1
Couldn't agree more Gres! Think that Wolves chap did reply to me but since he couldn't even use the quote facility right I couldn't be bothered to pluck his comment out!
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Jul 17, 2007 9:40:22 GMT -1
Post by ollietimms on Jul 17, 2007 9:40:22 GMT -1
Up the MK Dons, have to like them, they are local to me. Agreed Im not too local, but lots of my family are from Dunstable
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Jul 17, 2007 11:11:36 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 17, 2007 11:11:36 GMT -1
Couldn't agree more Gres! Think that Wolves chap did reply to me but since he couldn't even use the quote facility right I couldn't be bothered to pluck his comment out! Is this your best point?
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Jul 17, 2007 11:13:03 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 17, 2007 11:13:03 GMT -1
I would rather have seen wimbledon go bust, reform and start again than have its guts ripped out and shipped to Milton Keynes! errrr....they did They had to because they couldn't compete financially.
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gt
Non League Player (someone crap, like Boston)
Posts: 51
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Haha
Jul 17, 2007 15:01:15 GMT -1
Post by gt on Jul 17, 2007 15:01:15 GMT -1
I made my point already, I don't need to keep justifying it to you. You support franchising, I and many many other fans don't. I know I'm in the right. Couldn't agree more Gres! Think that Wolves chap did reply to me but since he couldn't even use the quote facility right I couldn't be bothered to pluck his comment out! Is this your best point?
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Jul 17, 2007 19:39:52 GMT -1
Post by MozzaBedfordSpur on Jul 17, 2007 19:39:52 GMT -1
Mowgli and GT sitting in a tree - P U N C H I N G ;D
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gt
Non League Player (someone crap, like Boston)
Posts: 51
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Jul 17, 2007 19:41:40 GMT -1
Post by gt on Jul 17, 2007 19:41:40 GMT -1
Not really Mozz, he got there first and moved the tree 80 miles away and called it the Wakefield Leaves
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Jul 17, 2007 21:20:30 GMT -1
Post by GresleyRam©®™ on Jul 17, 2007 21:20:30 GMT -1
I would rather have seen wimbledon go bust, reform and start again than have its guts ripped out and shipped to Milton Keynes! errrr....they did They had to because they couldn't compete financially. ....and by starting again i mean from scratch, which AFC wimbledon have done and best of luck to em - MK dons are a farce mate - they couldnt form a team with any support or ambition so inherited one in the league!! The fact they call themselves 'dons' is a piss take in itself! Many teams struggle financially but stay rooted in the area they have been founded, thats part and parcel of football - if Wolves closed down and reformed as Liverpool Wolves would you still support them?? Franchises may work in the states, but its not the foundation our great game has been founded on - that is one of local teams with local support - a team being part of the local community! well....at least that's how i see it!
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Jul 18, 2007 6:41:56 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 18, 2007 6:41:56 GMT -1
errrr....they did They had to because they couldn't compete financially. ....and by starting again i mean from scratch, which AFC wimbledon have done and best of luck to em - MK dons are a farce mate - they couldnt form a team with any support or ambition so inherited one in the league!! The fact they call themselves 'dons' is a piss take in itself! Many teams struggle financially but stay rooted in the area they have been founded, thats part and parcel of football - if Wolves closed down and reformed as Liverpool Wolves would you still support them?? Franchises may work in the states, but its not the foundation our great game has been founded on - that is one of local teams with local support - a team being part of the local community! well....at least that's how i see it! I do a 200 mile round trip to see Wolves home games as it is. So yes (it would be nice to see them at the top level again ). But I agree that I am an exception. Anyway, its not going to happen is it? Milton Keynes was a major, developing town with no football team so, they picked a club which would effectively 'sell out' and Wimbledon did. It's not as if Wimbledon was forced to move. The Dons now have a developing fan base having activley involved the club with all local sports clubs and schools. They hold a high profile in the community and now have a stadium and indoor arena to match anything outside the Premiership. I can't see how that is farcical or in any way bad for the game? Where would Wimbledon be? And being realistic for a moment Gresley, what do you say Derby are going to get out of Premiership football? Yes there is the excitement of seeing your team take on th ebest in the world but seeing them go down to teh Middlesboroughs and Fulhams wears thin after a while. The answer, is simple; money. Now, smoking in pubs............ ;D ;D ;D
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Jul 18, 2007 15:58:38 GMT -1
Post by GresleyRam©®™ on Jul 18, 2007 15:58:38 GMT -1
....and by starting again i mean from scratch, which AFC wimbledon have done and best of luck to em - MK dons are a farce mate - they couldnt form a team with any support or ambition so inherited one in the league!! The fact they call themselves 'dons' is a piss take in itself! Many teams struggle financially but stay rooted in the area they have been founded, thats part and parcel of football - if Wolves closed down and reformed as Liverpool Wolves would you still support them?? Franchises may work in the states, but its not the foundation our great game has been founded on - that is one of local teams with local support - a team being part of the local community! well....at least that's how i see it! I do a 200 mile round trip to see Wolves home games as it is. So yes (it would be nice to see them at the top level again ). But I agree that I am an exception. Anyway, its not going to happen is it? Milton Keynes was a major, developing town with no football team so, they picked a club which would effectively 'sell out' and Wimbledon did. It's not as if Wimbledon was forced to move. The Dons now have a developing fan base having activley involved the club with all local sports clubs and schools. They hold a high profile in the community and now have a stadium and indoor arena to match anything outside the Premiership. I can't see how that is farcical or in any way bad for the game? Where would Wimbledon be? And being realistic for a moment Gresley, what do you say Derby are going to get out of Premiership football? Yes there is the excitement of seeing your team take on th ebest in the world but seeing them go down to teh Middlesboroughs and Fulhams wears thin after a while. The answer, is simple; money. Now, smoking in pubs............ ;D ;D ;D I actually dont mind the week in, week out trips to middlesboro and fulham - sure as hell beats the week in, week out trips to Colchester and Scunthorpe that some teams will be experiencing next season! Yes, derby will get money out of the premier league, but we will have chance to play against the best in the world and maybe, just maybe develop the club as a premier league club and then push on from there - the hard work has only just begun! It was nice to win more games than normal last season, and that wont happen this time around but its gonna be exciting no matter what!
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Jul 18, 2007 19:30:51 GMT -1
Post by Argyle_Smurf on Jul 18, 2007 19:30:51 GMT -1
Not really Mozz, he got there first and moved the tree 80 miles away and called it the Wakefield Leaves An exalt for that one, made me laugh. And, the McDons are THE example of why money is destroying football, and AFC Wimbledon (And FC United of Manchester) are the saviors of that problem.
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Jul 18, 2007 22:22:38 GMT -1
Post by mortontheblade on Jul 18, 2007 22:22:38 GMT -1
no one liked wimbledon and no one likes mk dons - whats the difference
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Jul 19, 2007 11:00:39 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 19, 2007 11:00:39 GMT -1
Not really Mozz, he got there first and moved the tree 80 miles away and called it the Wakefield Leaves An exalt for that one, made me laugh. And, the McDons are THE example of why money is destroying football, and AFC Wimbledon (And FC United of Manchester) are the saviors of that problem. Why are they the example of why money is destroying football and how are AFC Wimbledon and FC United the saviours of that problem?
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Jul 19, 2007 11:42:52 GMT -1
Post by Argyle_Smurf on Jul 19, 2007 11:42:52 GMT -1
An exalt for that one, made me laugh. And, the McDons are THE example of why money is destroying football, and AFC Wimbledon (And FC United of Manchester) are the saviors of that problem. Why are they the example of why money is destroying football and how are AFC Wimbledon and FC United the saviours of that problem? AFC Wimbledon and FC Utd are both cases of fans who have got sick of the money involved in football and responded by creating their own teams, for the football, not for the profit. Pure football, if you will. The McDons, on the other hand, are the perfect example of a team f*cking over the fans, for the sake of 'the franchise' (they called it that, not me) and for making money out of the game. Granted, they were suffering financially, and granted, ground-sharing with god knows how many teams obviously didn't help. But there are always alternatives, and in some ways it may have been better for them to die with dignity. instead, the people of Wimbledon still lost their team, and everyone got a plastic club to hate with a passion. Moving to 'the national hockey stadium' still didn't really help their cause, they still got relegated, while AFC were getting promoted.
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Jul 19, 2007 11:59:45 GMT -1
Post by Beerwulf on Jul 19, 2007 11:59:45 GMT -1
I think they are a little naive if that is right. MK Dons has brought football to a rapidly expanding area with a potentially huge fan base. They have involved local schools and set up a junior system across a range of age groups. Not only is this very positive for the development of football in the area it is also a very effective marketing strategy ensuring a wide fan base for the future. This is coupled with incredibly generous season ticket and match ticket concession schemes to younger fans. All very progressive. The fact that Wimbledon were ground sharing and fighting for existence suggests that it was everything that MK Dons isn't. MK Dons is run properly and commercially, strategies which are absent from many other clubs in the football league, but which are essential. Picking the bones out of a defunct club and pinching their place in the football league was (in my view) a stroke of genius on the part of MK and was facilitated by the ineptitude of the football league and those running Wimbledon football club. I like your picture. Have you seen The Dons new stadium?
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