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Post by weallloveleeds on Feb 21, 2007 11:42:53 GMT -1
...Well I'm still waiting for my token e-mail That's my point; they have seen that a large proportion of the general public is against this scheme, yet they have chosen to ignore it and crack ahead- so what was the point of signing a petition after they had announced they were going to ignore it? And, as this is the most signed petition to date, and it has beeg ignored, it kind of de-values the whole point of having petitions in the first place, as if this one gets overlooked, what chance does a petition with maybe only 10k signatories on it have? So basically - don't bother signing petitions. I'd still say sign them, just don't expect anything to happen.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 21, 2007 11:43:08 GMT -1
So basically - don't bother signing petitions. Yup - apathy's the way to get what you want nowadays ;D
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 11:46:55 GMT -1
They haven't made a decision about road pricing yet!!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6381153.stmIn an e-mailed reply to the signatories he (the PM) wrote that no decision had yet been made on pricing, but the aim of a scheme would be tackling congestion.In his email respsonse, the PM said... Let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so.They are going ahead with some local pilot schemes, the funds from which will go back into local transport. They've obviously not made the decision to implement national road pricing yet, as they still don't know how it would work, and there's too much public pressure for them to be able to succesfully implement it at the moment. ...You don't think these local schemes are going to lead on to a nation-wide scheme then? I'm sure I've heard that this petition is going to be ignored on the news, earlier this week. "...there's too much public pressure for them to be able to succesfully implement it at the moment."
"I'm sure I've heard that this petition is going to be ignored on the news, earlier this week."
Well there you go I reckon eventually there will be a nation road pricing scheme introduced but not for another 20yrs, at least. They know how it would work, perhaps in the same way they implement Congestion Charges in London..(one assumes so) but tis just a case of implementing it on a broader scale, hence using pilot schemes first. Besides, the amount of pressure the Labour govt. is under at the moment, there's no telling who will be in office in say 20yrs so the whole thing might just get scrapped and some other stealth tax introduced.
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Post by Shippers on Feb 21, 2007 11:48:34 GMT -1
no I haven't and I won't.
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 11:52:18 GMT -1
no I haven't and I won't. Too late now anyway
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Post by Shippers on Feb 21, 2007 11:54:48 GMT -1
no it's not. It's never too late for someone who had no intention to be involved anyway!
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 11:57:01 GMT -1
Spose not The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website. This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network. It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible. That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further. But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas. One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government. Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue. Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving. But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion. One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses. A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity. Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail. That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further. It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society. I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion. Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided. Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament. We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate. Yours sincerely, Tony Blair
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Post by weallloveleeds on Feb 21, 2007 11:59:02 GMT -1
They've obviously not made the decision to implement national road pricing yet, as they still don't know how it would work, and there's too much public pressure for them to be able to succesfully implement it at the moment. ...You don't think these local schemes are going to lead on to a nation-wide scheme then? I'm sure I've heard that this petition is going to be ignored on the news, earlier this week. "...there's too much public pressure for them to be able to succesfully implement it at the moment."
"I'm sure I've heard that this petition is going to be ignored on the news, earlier this week."
Well there you go I reckon eventually there will be a nation road pricing scheme introduced but not for another 20yrs, at least. They know how it would work, perhaps in the same way they implement Congestion Charges in London..(one assumes so) but tis just a case of implementing it on a broader scale, hence using pilot schemes first. Besides, the amount of pressure the Labour govt. is under at the moment, there's no telling who will be in office in say 20yrs so the whole thing might just get scrapped and some other stealth tax introduced. Slight contradiction there I wouldn't mind a toll-booth system in congested areas, with the revenues going on improving roads and improving alternative modes of transport, but I'm really against the possible vehicle tracking system. If they introduce any extra charge I think they'll be forced to reduce petrol duties or road tax as a conscessionary counter-balance to it. It's not going to be popular whoever introduces it- so I can't see it being introduced any time before or immediately after the next vote.
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 12:02:52 GMT -1
"...there's too much public pressure for them to be able to succesfully implement it at the moment."
"I'm sure I've heard that this petition is going to be ignored on the news, earlier this week."
Well there you go I reckon eventually there will be a nation road pricing scheme introduced but not for another 20yrs, at least. They know how it would work, perhaps in the same way they implement Congestion Charges in London..(one assumes so) but tis just a case of implementing it on a broader scale, hence using pilot schemes first. Besides, the amount of pressure the Labour govt. is under at the moment, there's no telling who will be in office in say 20yrs so the whole thing might just get scrapped and some other stealth tax introduced. Slight contradiction there I wouldn't mind a toll-booth system in congested areas, with the revenues going on improving roads and improving alternative modes of transport, but I'm really against the possible vehicle tracking system. If they introduce any extra charge I think they'll be forced to reduce petrol duties or road tax as a conscessionary counter-balance to it. It's not going to be popular whoever introduces it- so I can't see it being introduced any time before or immediately after the next vote. Yup Me neither; I wouldn't mind if the money went towards improving public transport (which is pretty shit around the York area and many other parts of the UK) I doubt they'll reduce any of the other taxes already in place, either way, it's all tax that is going to the govt and only a very small amount goes towards improving the roads and public transport. As much as Blair denies it, it's just another one of his stealth taxes.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 21, 2007 12:06:39 GMT -1
Other than the obvious turns of phrase, there's nothing wrong with what he's saying there. Sorry to disappoint but that would be the conclusion of most people who work in Transport.
I don't agree with Eddington though, he has a purely economic focus rather than considering the social and environmental factors in his proposals for the future of transport...
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 12:09:51 GMT -1
Other than the obvious turns of phrase, there's nothing wrong with what he's saying there. Sorry to disappoint but that would be the conclusion of most people who work in Transport. I don't agree with Eddington though, he has a purely economic focus rather than considering the social and environmental factors in his proposals for the future of transport... It was probably a transport 'expert' who prompted most of what Blair has written. Having said that, yes what he's said is right, there's no easy solution but there are less 'heavy handed' ones.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 21, 2007 12:15:10 GMT -1
It was probably a transport 'expert' who prompted most of what Blair has written. Having said that, yes what he's said is right, there's no easy solution but there are less 'heavy handed' ones. Indeed yes... someone at the DfT no doubt. Maybe even a friend of mine who's just started there! I smell a rat with Eddington. The man wants to invest in aviation rather than trains... 'tis surely a coincidence he's on the board of British Airways!!!
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 12:21:51 GMT -1
It was probably a transport 'expert' who prompted most of what Blair has written. Having said that, yes what he's said is right, there's no easy solution but there are less 'heavy handed' ones. Indeed yes... someone at the DfT no doubt. Maybe even a friend of mine who's just started there! I smell a rat with Eddington. The man wants to invest in aviation rather than trains... 'tis surely a coincidence he's on the board of British Airways!!! s Fishy.. Isn't he the former Chief Exec? He does have a point though, eventually, the potential benefits of charging motorists for using roads will outweigh the costs of the scheme.
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 21, 2007 12:28:28 GMT -1
Fishy.. Isn't he the former Chief Exec? He does have a point though, eventually, the potential benefits of charging motorists for using roads will outweigh the costs of the scheme. Aye, that's it! He's still involved though... I believe so, yes. I guess I can understand why everyone's so wound up about it but unfortunately I think it needs to be done. There are possible alternatives mind...
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Post by Billy on Feb 21, 2007 12:31:29 GMT -1
I think what many people are sick of is that we were told in 1997 and again in 2001 that improving the public transport systam, and making it much more integrated, was a government priority - they even put John Prescott in charge of it. And yet here we are, however many millions of public money later and we're still discussing the same issues! That's what annoys me
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Post by Fizzy Bread on Feb 21, 2007 12:32:43 GMT -1
Fishy.. Isn't he the former Chief Exec? He does have a point though, eventually, the potential benefits of charging motorists for using roads will outweigh the costs of the scheme. Aye, that's it! He's still involved though... I believe so, yes. I guess I can understand why everyone's so wound up about it but unfortunately I think it needs to be done. There are possible alternatives mind... I can imagine. Must be a very influential character. I agree that there has to be something done to cut congestion but something like road charging is very hefty on top of what we already get taxed for road use.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 21, 2007 12:42:35 GMT -1
I would be in favour of more toll booths as well. Put them on roads with schools on for a start, and watch congestion and obesity levels drop as parents begin to - gasp! - walk their children to school! Seriously though, I think that would be a fairer approach. Paying by the mile is just unrealistically expensive for the average person, and there aren't really any suitable alternatives - as has been said many a time. Vote for a national canal network! ;D
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Post by jh1980 on Feb 21, 2007 12:47:20 GMT -1
I've lost the will! I don't care! Canal network sounds cool though Neko... turn Britain into Venice!!! ;D
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Post by Stan on Feb 21, 2007 12:48:53 GMT -1
I've lost the will! I don't care! Canal network sounds cool though Neko... turn Britain into Venice!!! ;D ...or Birmingham....
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Post by Neko Bazu on Feb 21, 2007 12:49:18 GMT -1
Canal network sounds cool though Neko... turn Britain into Venice!!! ;D Only without the horrendous stench in Summer, since we'd never get warm enough anyway!
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