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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 8:53:35 GMT -1
I think that there is a serious inbalance here, and maybe these hate groups is whats needed to redress the line in order that Politicians have the balls to stand up and speak out. These groups have always existed, nothing new. However it's interesting to see they're becoming more prominent! I tend to fondly hope that groups born in strife die in strife. There is no place for hate groups within any civilised society |
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Post by T C on Jan 30, 2008 8:56:59 GMT -1
back to the original thread........ We should keep our heritage. We've precious little else to be proud of and should keep our Rule Brittania ! !  |
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Post by GeoFox on Jan 30, 2008 8:59:08 GMT -1
Why do people care?! Its a nothing issue. If you read through the Mail's very directional story, you see there isn't much in it. Coins are minted in batches, so it needn't be permanent and supposedly the new designs are supposed to promote 'Britishness' and 'British values' anyway. There are so many more important issues that face the country and the world which make a difference to people's lives. And yet people get so worked up about this sort of thing and jump on bandwagons pushed by the right wing tabloid press. Does it really matter one way or another; not one bit! If you don't understand why people get upseat about national identity etc., that you really should just shut the fuck up Smart Hurls. I actually think that your 'identity' is something that the state cannot easily manufacture or even take away from you, particularly in the free West. Its part of something deeper, and certainly not at massive threat from a small change to some coinage, when they are going to be replaced with various 'British' institutions or whatever. Its not a big change; we're not joining the euro. So, yes, I do think people are over exaggerating and jumping on populist bandwagons. Afterall, your idea of what it is to be British will be different from mine, and both of ours to the next person on the street. Which begs the question how it can be enshrined on a coin anyway. It would probably have taken me a few guesses to guess what was on a 50p. What I am saying is that if the Daily Mail launched a worthwhile campaign forcing the government to improve educational standards (i.e. the European leaue tables of literacy and maths we are near the bottom) or get rid of pensioner poverty then it would get the smallest fraction of a passionate response. But really, what matters more? |
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Post by HURLOCK on Jan 30, 2008 9:00:01 GMT -1
I tend to fondly hope that groups born in strife die in strife. There is no place for hate groups within any civilised society Do you believe that really, I ask that question because I don't think you've had to fight for anything Jules Is it not more intelligent to question why they exist as opposed to trying to iradicate them a la George Bush. Have you ever stopped to think that these people are British and they feel this way because the country they love is being changed for the worse? But no party politics a la Jules 'there is no place for you here' you have no voice. Very democratic Julian |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:01:39 GMT -1
back to the original thread........ We should keep our heritage. We've precious little else to be proud of and should keep our Rule Brittania ! ! "Rule Britannia" (to be precise) has a slightly hollow ring when we don't rule our own fishing waters and are slaves to the whim of the USA! Not to use the arguments of the unreconstructed xenophobic tendency!  |
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Post by HURLOCK on Jan 30, 2008 9:05:48 GMT -1
Smart Hurls. I actually think that your 'identity' is something that the state cannot easily manufacture or even take away from you, particularly in the free West. Its part of something deeper, and certainly not at massive threat from a small change to some coinage, when they are going to be replaced with various 'British' institutions or whatever. Its not a big change; we're not joining the euro. So, yes, I do think people are over exaggerating and jumping on populist bandwagons. Afterall, your idea of what it is to be British will be different from mine, and both of ours to the next person on the street. Which begs the question how it can be enshrined on a coin anyway. It would probably have taken me a few guesses to guess what was on a 50p. What I am saying is that if the Daily Mail launched a worthwhile campaign forcing the government to improve educational standards (i.e. the European leaue tables of literacy and maths we are near the bottom) or get rid of pensioner poverty then it would get the smallest fraction of a passionate response. But really, what matters more? Glad you think so. With regards to identity I think that it does matter to an awful lot of people, you only have to look at remembrance Sunday to see all the folk who fought for Queen and Country. |
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Post by T C on Jan 30, 2008 9:10:31 GMT -1
back to the original thread........ We should keep our heritage. We've precious little else to be proud of and should keep our Rule Brittania ! ! "Rule Britannia" (to be precise) has a slightly hollow ring when we don't rule our own fishing waters and are slaves to the whim of the USA! Not to use the arguments of the unreconstructed xenophobic tendency! You swallowed a thesaurus for breakfast Jules ?  |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:10:45 GMT -1
Do you believe that really, I ask that question because I don't think you've had to fight for anything Jules Is it not more intelligent to question why they exist as opposed to trying to iradicate them a la George Bush. Have you ever stopped to think that these people are British and they feel this way because the country they love is being changed for the worse? But no party politics a la Jules 'there is no place for you here' you have no voice. Very democratic Julian Yes, I think it's valid to oppose fascism in all its forms fella. My reasonably fortunate circumstances (and it's all relative) are irrelevant to that. I know why fascist groups exist. They idiotically blame minorities (or increasingly, a conspiracy to help minorities) for all their problems in life. They are also simple minded thugs in many cases. I wasn't suggesting dropping bombs on them Hurls!  I think where they are from is unimportant, and their views are not valid, nor are they reasonable. Have you stopped to realise that there is a limit to what views can be legitimately held within society? Think about that, and I'll give examples if you need them. You're only saying that to get a rise, and to misrepresent my views. |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:12:46 GMT -1
With regards to identity I think that it does matter to an awful lot of people, you only have to look at remembrance Sunday to see all the folk who fought for Queen and Country. I think a lot of people attend or watch remembrance services because they want to remember dead friends or family - not everyone buys the "glorious dead" rhetoric, some also remember in the hope of preventing conflict on that scale from ever happening again. |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:13:20 GMT -1
You swallowed a thesaurus for breakfast Jules ? Makes a good meal. Lots of fibre. |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 30, 2008 9:18:19 GMT -1
Neko I think saying "I'm highlighting a problem, it's not what I really believe" is a smokescreen. Then again the last thing I want is to get into this shower of shite again. Can we not have a conversation about something more interesting / less controversial?!  I'm highlighting the issue of PC Brigade fuckwits, who I suspect (emphasis, emphasis, EMPHASIS!) will strike here yet again. I immediately made it clear upon mentioning mosques and the European stars that that was an exaggeration, so I fail to see how I can be accused of using a smokescreen here? I get this horrible feeling I'm being accused of racism here, which isn't the case - I'd have thought my frequent defence of muslims in vast numbers of other threads refutes the Islamophobia claim, and my frequently stating that "I'll welcome anyone, as long as they're willing to contribute to society - white Brits who wanna sponge can fuck off too" would've refuted any suggestion I was anti-anyone else. As for Europe; as a trading block, great idea. As a vast political alliance, great. As a group of nations with an understanding of each other's cultures and shared respect for each other's citizens, fucking superb. But in understanding those cultures, let all of us keep our individualities too, okay? I oppose the idea of a 'super-state' because I just don't think it'd work - nothing to do with 'little Englander' syndrome, I just think the people are too diverse for universal laws to apply (hence 'let us keep our individualities'), the economies are too far apart for the transition to work smoothly, and the whole thing would just be unwieldy. If you want to highlight the US as an example of it working, I'd disagree; I don't think that system works at all. But that paragraph's for another debate entirely  |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:22:56 GMT -1
 Chill, Neko, just giving back a little of what I get on a daily basis! I liked that last post, I agreed with much of what you said about Europe!  Not that I give a toss whether we're on a single currency or not, that ain't really the point! |
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Post by HURLOCK on Jan 30, 2008 9:23:01 GMT -1
Yes, I think it's valid to oppose fascism in all its forms fella. My reasonably fortunate circumstances (and it's all relative) are irrelevant to that. I know why fascist groups exist. They idiotically blame minorities (or increasingly, a conspiracy to help minorities) for all their problems in life. They are also simple minded thugs in many cases. I wasn't suggesting dropping bombs on them Hurls! I think where they are from is unimportant, and their views are not valid, nor are they reasonable. Have you stopped to realise that there is a limit to what views can be legitimately held within society? Think about that, and I'll give examples if you need them. You're only saying that to get a rise, and to misrepresent my views. I don't think that opposing is wrong, your social standing has an awful lot to do with it mate. Because some racists are ignorants and therefore need educating or help. But to you they're adherent and beyond help! They don't exist because of blame factors, they exist on the basis of ignorance. Whilst an extremely intelligent group stand behind them. Seriously you have to question how the NP keep going and stand for elections. Membership etc., So being British is not important, Jules. Stop talking out of your arse and if your a product of the labour party and this is you rhetoric I despair. There is a real problem here, but instead of dealing with it you chose to ignore it. And you have the cheek to tell me off for my Tory views, PSML at your double standards |
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Post by Mrs H on Jan 30, 2008 9:24:56 GMT -1
Julian, Neko and Hurls arguing about politics, well that's a new one! |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 30, 2008 9:27:28 GMT -1
Julian, Neko and Hurls arguing about politics, well that's a new one! Jules and I are "debating" - we're showing controlled restraint As for Jules and Hurls?  ;D |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 30, 2008 9:28:07 GMT -1
Julian, Neko and Hurls arguing about politics, well that's a new one! Hello gorgeous. What would you rather talk about on another thread then?! |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 30, 2008 9:31:44 GMT -1
Chill, Neko, just giving back a little of what I get on a daily basis! I liked that last post, I agreed with much of what you said about Europe! Not that I give a toss whether we're on a single currency or not, that ain't really the point! Rest assured, I'm chilled The one time I've ever been genuinely offended on this site, I simply logged off and left for the remainder of the day - that's how you tell if I really have a problem with what's said Incidentally, there's an interesting article on Europe written by Kelvin Hopkins in the local rag - I'll have to scan it and show you it, see if you agree. Essentially, he's saying he's opposed to the new European constitution legislation because of all the details in it that're decidedly opposed to what Old Labour stood for! |
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Post by Mrs H on Jan 30, 2008 9:32:40 GMT -1
Julian, Neko and Hurls arguing about politics, well that's a new one! Hello gorgeous. What would you rather talk about on another thread then?! Immigrants mothers causing a shortage of midwives in the NHS. I'm joking but if in doubt blame the immigrants ;D |
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Post by Mrs H on Jan 30, 2008 9:33:10 GMT -1
Julian, Neko and Hurls arguing about politics, well that's a new one! Jules and I are "debating" - we're showing controlled restraint As for Jules and Hurls? ;D Which one is which? ;D |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 30, 2008 9:36:19 GMT -1
Jules and I are "debating" - we're showing controlled restraint As for Jules and Hurls? ;D Which one is which? ;D You know, it's quite hard to tell at times! Initially, I figured Hurls would be Jerry, 'cause he's always baiting Jules, but then he does appear to have sudden aggressive periods too... |
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Chill, Neko, just giving back a little of what I get on a daily basis! 
Not that I give a toss whether we're on a single currency or not, that ain't really the point! 
Forever without exception. x