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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 10:25:01 GMT -1
Ince hits out over managerial colour barPaul Ince yesterday hit out at the racist attitude in football that has limited the number of black managers in the Premiership, and promised to try and break the mould. While foreign coaches such as Ruud Gullit and Jean Tigana have been given jobs in the top flight, Ince is concerned that British-born managers like Keith Alexander and Leroy Rosenior have been denied their chance at bigger clubs. The first black player to captain England, Ince is also proud of his achievements in Italy where he often encountered racism as a midfielder for Inter Milan. He said: "Other countries have moved on and we’ve still got our heads stuck in the sand. It’s crazy. "Tigana and Gullit have been managing here but they seem to be different – we need to move on from that. "Chairmen now are 65 or 75-years-old, and maybe we’d have more chance with the people who are buying clubs at the moment who don’t see the colour thing as a issue. "Hopefully I can change that. If I can keep performing the way I am doing, in four or five years they will have no choice but to say yes." The 39-year-old joined League Two Macclesfield after the disappointment of missing out to Mick McCarthy for the vacancy at Wolves in the summer. Ince, who also wants to manage his old club Inter, added: "The Wolves job would have been ideal. The fans wanted me, the players wanted me, everyone wanted me. For some apparent reason I didn’t get it – that makes you think doesn’t it? "The Macclesfield owners are from Iraq and don’t see colour as an issue. You have to feel wanted, and I feel wanted here. "Keith Alexander did extremely well at Lincoln and got them in the play-offs three times, yet no one gave him a chance to go higher. I can’t understand why not. "When I went to Italy there weren’t a lot of black players," he said. "Together with the likes of George Weah, I was a figurehead for a lot of black people to get into football. "When I captained England there were a lot of black players from the ghetto who started playing football. "It’s too easy just to go out of the game. People like Ian Wright and Les Ferdinand have gone into TV, and I think when you’ve had such a great career you should try and put something back into the game. "Maybe I’m the one now to take it on and become the black Premiership manager." *~*~*~*~*~* At risk of sounding racist myself, how many black managers have proven they're good enough to work in the premiership? And how many of them would want to leave their current job to do it? It's all well and good quoting names like Alexander, Ince, but getting one team into the play-offs three times (anyone noticing the apparent failure rate at the end there?) isn't exactly proof of Premiership credentials. Billy Davies would be well set otherwise!  I've always had a lot of respect for the guv'nor, but I'm afraid he's lost a little of it with this.
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Post by The Lucky C on Jan 5, 2007 10:28:56 GMT -1
i read this in the guardian the other day. i agree that rosenoir & alexander haven't really proved themselves enough to play in the prem, and to an extent it may just be 'pity me'. but there may be a slight racist undercurrent in the game subconciously. i would've thought that alexander at least would've been good enough to manage in the championship at least.
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 5, 2007 10:29:59 GMT -1
At risk of sounding racist myself, how many black managers have proven they're good enough to work in the premiership? And how many of them would want to leave their current job to do it? On the other boot, how many have been given a chance? I can't actually think of any black British players who became managers though... |
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Post by Remember Jesus on Jan 5, 2007 10:30:39 GMT -1
Good stuff Neko.
Didn't Alexander also have a serious illness?
A lot of ex players have gone down the pundit route because it is less pressure.
Viv Anderson was assistant to Robson at Boro as well when they were in the prem.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 10:31:40 GMT -1
i read this in the guardian the other day. i agree that rosenoir & alexander haven't really proved themselves enough to play in the prem, and to an extent it may just be 'pity me'. but there may be a slight racist undercurrent in the game subconciously. i would've thought that alexander at least would've been good enough to manage in the championship at least. There may be an undercurrent, but looking at the number of foreign players - not just black - in British football now, I can't honestly say I think it's a particularly strong one! He also refers to older chairmen, presumably with old-fashioned opinions, but unless I'm very much mistaken there's a fair few young and/or foreign owners in the Premiership now, and that doesn't seem to have made a difference. |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 10:33:57 GMT -1
At risk of sounding racist myself, how many black managers have proven they're good enough to work in the premiership? And how many of them would want to leave their current job to do it? On the other boot, how many have been given a chance? I can't actually think of any black British players who became managers though... In football nowadays, risks are bigger than ever. As a Premiership chairman, would you go for a proven manager or take a chance on an unproven guy and potentially ruin it all? There are some that're good enough; just have a look on the continent. Like I said, though, I doubt many of them would want to leave their current job! |
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Post by ArgyleNeil on Jan 5, 2007 10:35:35 GMT -1
At risk of sounding racist myself, how many black managers have proven they're good enough to work in the premiership? And how many of them would want to leave their current job to do it? On the other boot, how many have been given a chance? I can't actually think of any black British players who became managers though... I dont think it is a race issue at all, i think he would like to find a reason why he wasnt given the job and has pulled that classic out of the deck. alot of players dont want to go into management it might just happen to be that none of the black players retiring over the last decade have fancied a management career, it is not everyones idea of fun. There were a couple of ex players on goals on sunday last week who were saying how they would rather not go into it and after years of playing they dont really need the money. Perhaps there is a mass of racist directors in football but i find it hard to believe. Maybe i am just being very simple |
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Post by Remember Jesus on Jan 5, 2007 10:36:27 GMT -1
I thought Ince was doing the right thing in management - starting at the bottom and working his way up. But it seems he is bitter and twisted at not getting the Wolves job and just wanted a stepping stone into the prem.
Its a shame because he is doing a damn good job at Macclesfield
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Post by ArgyleNeil on Jan 5, 2007 10:37:05 GMT -1
I thought Ince was doing the right thing in management - starting at the bottom and working his way up. But it seems he is bitter and twisted at not getting the Wolves job and just wanted a stepping stone into the prem. Its a shame because he is doing a damn good job at Macclesfield Agreed i think it is a sensible route. |
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 10:40:02 GMT -1
I thought Ince was doing the right thing in management - starting at the bottom and working his way up. But it seems he is bitter and twisted at not getting the Wolves job and just wanted a stepping stone into the prem. Its a shame because he is doing a damn good job at Macclesfield Agree that that's the right route - learn your trade at lower level and build on it. If he'd gone to Wolves, I can't help but think he'd have been gunned down (metaphorically) very quickly indeed. You wouldn't take a college graduate and make them an executive, after all. Agreed that the racism card re: the job may be what this is all about too. |
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Post by Remember Jesus on Jan 5, 2007 10:43:08 GMT -1
I thought Ince was doing the right thing in management - starting at the bottom and working his way up. But it seems he is bitter and twisted at not getting the Wolves job and just wanted a stepping stone into the prem. Its a shame because he is doing a damn good job at Macclesfield Agreed i think it is a sensible route. O'Neill,Allardyce and Sir Alex all worked their way up. Why not Ince? |
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Post by The Lucky C on Jan 5, 2007 10:48:24 GMT -1
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 10:49:47 GMT -1
Saw that article too - he reckons he could've walked straight into it if he'd played there a while longer. No more drugs for that man! |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 5, 2007 10:51:25 GMT -1
In football nowadays, risks are bigger than ever. As a Premiership chairman, would you go for a proven manager or take a chance on an unproven guy and potentially ruin it all? There are some that're good enough; just have a look on the continent. Like I said, though, I doubt many of them would want to leave their current job! Southgate. Oooh dearie me! But I don't know many managers at any level who aren't white in this country, abroad things are different. I'm not saying I agree with Ince but then somehow it surprises me how everyone then jumps to the opposite conclusion! Incidentally - why is this messageboard so white? Not being funny, but...  |
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Post by Main Admin Account on Jan 5, 2007 11:07:47 GMT -1
you are being funny arent you JH??
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 5, 2007 11:11:07 GMT -1
you are being funny arent you JH?? Yes and No... Just surprised at the lack of diversity on here... it's not like it bothers me on a daily basis or anything  |
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Post by Dr LuKas on Jan 5, 2007 11:22:16 GMT -1
In football nowadays, risks are bigger than ever. As a Premiership chairman, would you go for a proven manager or take a chance on an unproven guy and potentially ruin it all? There are some that're good enough; just have a look on the continent. Like I said, though, I doubt many of them would want to leave their current job! Incidentally - why is this messageboard so white? Not being funny, but... Yeah it is a little too white, (if there's such a thing) but it's not just this message board, it's football fans in general, look at the stands around you nearly everyone is white. Not quite sure why this there are loads of black and other races represented on the pitch but you rarely see them as fans. |
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Post by jh1980 on Jan 5, 2007 11:31:57 GMT -1
Yeah it is a little too white, (if there's such a thing) but it's not just this message board, it's football fans in general, look at the stands around you nearly everyone is white. Not quite sure why this there are loads of black and other races represented on the pitch but you rarely see them as fans. Thought you might agree mate Depends partly on the area... some areas of the country are very white... I'm thinking of old Hampshire particularly when I say this mind...  London's a bit different from that point of view, as is Birmingham, or Leicester, or Bradford... no? Must admit I never met a football fan from the Asian community... no, hang on... one! <shrugs>  |
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Post by Dr LuKas on Jan 5, 2007 11:40:11 GMT -1
Yeah I've met a few Asain Leeds fans but they are of course in a very small minority. Ah well it doesn't really matter just slightly puzzeling.
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Post by Neko Bazu on Jan 5, 2007 11:45:37 GMT -1
As goes asian fans, it's often a cultural thing. I believe it's Islam (could be Hinduism) that, through some caveat or another, more or less forbids men taking group baths. In football, this is obviously a bit of an issue (post-match showers?) but in - for instance - cricket it's not. If you don't play it when you're young, you're less likely to generate an interest and so on.
That said, I've seen a fair amount of asian fans at Luton games, and personally know quite a few black fans too. Maybe it's my generation that's gonna lead the change?
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